Anyone here date a bonefide narcissist?

[soulseeker]

Maybe I am just disillusioned. I think I stated here, or in another post, that perhaps labeling him as such was a defense mechanism for me. It is human nature to label others, it's how we verbally identify and relate to them. Boyfriend, girlfriend, ex-boyfriend, ex-girlfriend, cynic, etc. Labeling someone a narcissist is an attempt to make sense of someone else's behavior. It's no more handy than labeling anyone anything else.

 

Whether or not he is actually a narcissist, is beyond the point. What matters to me is the confusion surrounding the whole experience. I'm not even saying it's more painful than any other breakup, it's just a huge mind f***. I take my blame for my share, but certain forms of behavior are more painful than others...to me. If this type of behavior is that common, then it is quite a disappointment, but I dont consider it to be broadly human nature. I still believe in people.

[magichands]

I still believe in people.

Then there's not much point analysing this thing to death - when it's just an isolated case. Just one dude that screwed you over.

 

What exactly will you "recognise" next time? It's more that you made a character misjudgement, than anything else.

[sb129]

Surely labeling someone as NPD, and then stating they CAN'T change themselves is a little obtuse?

 

People aren't BORN that way, so shouldn't it stand to reason that they CAN change?

 

I really have a problem with this NPD label. (and for good reason- I have been told I was one, which is ridiculous)

Even tho my exBF displayed alot of the list of traits, he may very well be a wonderful BF to the next woman that comes along.

Alot of it is based on the perception of the other person in the R- it stands to reason if the R is failing, you prob aren't getting on so well, and there are alot of negative things about the R.

Sometimes a R goes bad, and two people aren't right for eachother.

THATS ALL. You can truss it up with as many labels, stereotypes etc if it makes you feel better, but some Rs bring the good out in the people in them, and others don't.

Which is why they end, and give us chances to find others who are more compatible.

[lonelybird]

Actually I think psychiatrists did a good job to describe phenomena of human mental status, but less touch the root of the problems. Successful shrinks are those who do really care and give love to their patients, otherwise only technics would not cure a person. think about that, try to solve the problem not from roots, but from phenomena? there are tons of phenomenon, seems lots of work to do.

According to theology opinion, those narcissistist are people who possess little demons . but to be honest, faith is the most effect and utmost solution. Have you heard of Holy Spirit cast out the demons at the spot? people don't have to go through long course of therapies....shrinks must hate me

[Ripples]

Everybody portrays narcissistic traits, it's part of what it is to be human. However, as we are individuals, we will all have different levels of the traits at different times and situations in our lives. It is when those traits are manifest most of the time in most of the different areas in our lives that they become a problem.

 

As I understand it, a true narcissist will be unable to change as they are unable to admit to themselves that they are not perfect.

 

I also believe that narcissistic tendencies can increase in certain people in certain situations, especially if that person is fairly unself-aware to begin with. A sexual relationship is an obvious breeding ground.

 

Forums too are a great place for a narcissist to operate, they have hundreds if not thousands of people reading their posts, even if only a few respond to them, it's still a great way to seek attention and, with the right 'hook', get it.

 

I should imagine it could be quite hard to not be sucked in by a narcissist, to not feel special when one is the object of their intentions. Maybe it comes back to the philosophy of looking after oneself first and foremost and not wanting or needing someone's attention to validate our own existence.

 

Great post Lindya, about time someone said it.

[soulseeker]

Frankly, in a case like this I am not quite sure why people get so offended by this or any other label. Thing is, a label is an attempt to understand a behavior by the person who labels. It really has nothing to do with the other person. I've also labeled him a beautiful soul in another thread. Just because I say this or that about anyone doesnt make any of it true, to that person. Only you can make your truth. That's what this is ALL about, my (your) own issues. When I mused that I thought he was a narcissist, thats just me trying to understand what happened between us and why I acted the way I did to his behavior. As I said, it really doesnt matter if he is or not, this isnt about him, but it helps me try to understand my own actions. Do you think I havent labeled myself a plethora of things?

[Bobbie]

Surely labeling someone as NPD, and then stating they CAN'T change themselves is a little obtuse?

 

People aren't BORN that way, so shouldn't it stand to reason that they CAN change?

 

I really have a problem with this NPD label. (and for good reason- I have been told I was one, which is ridiculous)

 

but that is the difference between a personality disorder and just having some traits which time and experience modify...

 

The only way to change a personality disorder is a long-term commitment to psycho-therapy with an experienced psychiatrist who understands fully the condition and also believes it can be modified- not all do; also with narcissistic personality maaybe anti-depressants, it's usually associated with severe depression. Even then true lasting change is unlikely- a personality disorder is a fragmented psyche resistant to change.

 

Yes it is misunderstood, and I believe it occurs on a continuum with dysfunctional traits on the lesser side right through to dangerous psycopath on the other.

 

It is thought to be caused by strongly simultaneously adoring aspects of a person whilst criticising and rejecting others; whilst it is usually started in childhood there are conditions later in life which would satisfy the criteria, there's a reason so many doctors for example are narcissistic...up on the pedestal one minute, vilified for being imperfect or inadequate the next.

 

My ex is also a beautiful soul too soulseeker, and believe me I have worked on myself so much to try to help him too, I would have done anything healthy to make our marriage work and keep our family together.

 

But at the core of him is a distortion which keeps him being cruel and destructive and self-destructive.

 

He responded to any levels of intimacy necessary for healing with fear, rage, loathing, violence. He hates me because he really hates himself.

 

If someone has a narcissistic personality disorder and you become closely involved they will take over the parts of you which don't function in them, but their rage and destructiveness means it does no good to satisfy or help them.

 

The best thing to do if you are or have been with a narcissist is to get good therapy for yourself- work out why you were attracted, why you stayed, and how to heal.

 

Anyone who has been married to a narrcissistic personality disorder knows that it is a lucky escape to leave with your sanity, health and life intact. My ex almost killed me and even now he knows what he does he just cannot help it. It's painful to watch him thrash about hurting people, especially my son.

 

Don't minimise the disorder- it's an ongoing nightmare and it's made worse because many other people, even society's institutions, only see the charm and wonderful side to a sick dangerous person.

 

It's not a label to use as an insult or lightly- you'll know a narcissistic personality by the trail of damaged people they leave in their wake throughout their life.

[Ripples]

Bobbie, that's very informative, thanks for that. I especially hadn't realised that narcissism is associated with depression.

 

As I'd posted before, I'd thought that someone with NPD is unlikely to be able to change as the whole point of the disorder is to be unable to identify problems with self. Is that inaccurate?

[sb129]

Everybody portrays narcissistic traits, it's part of what it is to be human. However, as we are individuals, we will all have different levels of the traits at different times and situations in our lives. It is when those traits are manifest most of the time in most of the different areas in our lives that they become a problem.

 

As I understand it, a true narcissist will be unable to change as they are unable to admit to themselves that they are not perfect.

 

I also believe that narcissistic tendencies can increase in certain people in certain situations, especially if that person is fairly unself-aware to begin with. A sexual relationship is an obvious breeding ground.

.

 

Yes, I am not disputing that. And you have made a good point about a true narcissist not being able to change, as they view themselves as perfect. (SB129s exMM fits into this category)

 

but that is the difference between a personality disorder and just having some traits which time and experience modify...

 

Yes, you are right. Which is why i was so p***d off to be labelled NPD.

 

It is thought to be caused by strongly simultaneously adoring aspects of a person whilst criticising and rejecting others; whilst it is usually started in childhood there are conditions later in life which would satisfy the criteria, there's a reason so many doctors for example are narcissistic...up on the pedestal one minute, vilified for being imperfect or inadequate the next.

Again, behaviour that my exMM displayed time and time again.

 

It's not a label to use as an insult or lightly- you'll know a narcissistic personality by the trail of damaged people they leave in their wake throughout their life

He scores again!

 

 

Bobbie, that's very informative, thanks for that. I especially hadn't realised that narcissism is associated with depression.

 

As I'd posted before, I'd thought that someone with NPD is unlikely to be able to change as the whole point of the disorder is to be unable to identify problems with self. Is that inaccurate?

 

I am understanding more about NPD the personality disorder, and I am NOT trying to devalue it Bobbie, but as with lots of PDs, partially informed people (like my ex) throw the terms around inaccurately, and by doing so devalue them.

 

The more I am reading here, the more i realise my exMM displayed alot of these traits, and the more I am understanding about WHY our R didn't work, and I can now articulate alot of the things about it that bothered me because they have been spelled out on this thread.

 

BUt I guess the whole thing has struck a raw nerve with me, I am HORRIFED that someone would call me that. Esp someone that once professed to love me (but not all of me as he frequently said)

 

I am not NPD AT ALL. I have had times where I have displayed some narcissim, but haven't we all?

Its reopened a wound, and it hurts. Can't believe that b**** for doing that. He will never look in the mirror at his own faults, whilst I have face up to mine over and over again. It still irks that he lives a guilt free existence, laying all the blame at my feet. Smug tw*t.

[stace79]

I'm right there with ya. I still have my narcissist in my life -- we are "just friends" at the moment. Although everything I have read here, including the link to an older post, reeks of this guy, I still question "What if it isn't really who he is?"

 

I feel the same as you -- if the good parts are so amazingly good, how can it overall be totally wrong and bad? I'm sort of working up to going total NC. It's sort of like an immunization, each time he pisses me off, I get a little closer to not caring anymore.

 

I feel like I was dating Jekyll and Hyde. There was this really beautiful part of his soul and a really ugly part too. I guess I just really resonated with the good parts and six months later I'm being flooded with the what ifs.

 

What if I am wrong about him, etc. It's so hard for me to accept that I have to completely cut someone out of my life, forever. It just doesnt make sense to me.

[Bobbie]

if the good parts are so amazingly good, how can it overall be totally wrong and bad?

 

because it's not the same reality: NPDs have a different set of criteria for relating including rules don't apply to me/I'm totally entitled/ I suffer more than others/ if you see the real me you'll hate me as much as X did or as much as I hate myself...it's damage at a very fundamental level affecting self-image and the way it is projected out.

 

We all project out our issues of course, but within social and psychological boundaries. The lack of empathy and compassion with NPD means they will do some pretty destructive stuff and what is worse- not even know or care sometimes.

 

My ex is trying to keep an emotional journal with our son; it's full of facts. I asked him about it and he said quite genuinely 'I have no idea how I feel....I don't feel anything and I don't know why you think it's important!'

 

Its reopened a wound, and it hurts. Can't believe that b**** for doing that. He will never look in the mirror at his own faults, whilst I have face up to mine over and over again. It still irks that he lives a guilt free existence, laying all the blame at my feet. Smug tw*t.

 

I'm sorry.

Have you read Patricia Evans 'The Verbally Abusive Relationship', there's a lot of stuff in there to help deal with people who do this underhand psychological twisting and crazy-making.

 

It's a trauma to be abused and misunderstood, give yourself time and some self-nurturing. I've done a lot of therapy for the abuse I've suffered; it started in childhood which set up a pattern, and that's what I try hard not to repeat now with new relationships.

 

the whole point of the disorder is to be unable to identify problems with self. Is that inaccurate?

 

'unable to identify self' would about sum it up.

 

My ex has no idea who he is, how he's feeling. He's very good at facts and intellectual thinking and is considered the most charming genius until people get to know him better and feel their self-confidence and spirit drained in his presence. Many NPDs are extremely talented and handsome and seem ideal in many ways- that's what hooks people and keeps them attracted after all.

 

Abusers leave people with an uneasy feeling right from the start, but if we've got abuse in our past we're already desensitised and it's easy to tune out.

 

I have had a lucky escape in that my ex is going to let me survive in some ways, but now he hurts me the only way he can- via our son. And that is the most painful of all, wondering what the long-term damage might be to this little boy who I brought unwittingly into this horrible almost unbelievable situation.

 

I don't use the word unbelievable lightly either- the worst aspect of NPD is unless your psycopath is belting you ( and sometimes not even then ) no one else will see the abuse and there are loads of social/ relationship/ religious pressures to discount the huge psychological violence a person like this inflicts.

 

If you have any doubts that the person you are involved with has this condition my advice is to put aside your attraction/ willingness to work things out/ openness and keep them out of your life. A NPD wants your soul and even then it won't be enough....

[stace79]

if the good parts are so amazingly good, how can it overall be totally wrong and bad?

 

because it's not the same reality: NPDs have a different set of criteria for relating including rules don't apply to me/I'm totally entitled/ I suffer more than others/ if you see the real me you'll hate me as much as X did or as much as I hate myself...it's damage at a very fundamental level affecting self-image and the way it is projected out.

 

This is scary....I have often said to myself that my friend/SO (whatever he is at the moment) always feels like he has suffered so much more than anyone else. He has a chronic disease that can cause some pretty serious problems, but when he has flare ups it's like everyone else be damned, his problems are the end of the world, and it doesn't matter how he treats everyone else when he feels that way.

 

Also, we went through this period of him trying to "make up his mind" if he wanted to get back together with his ex or not. During this time, while he would somewhat acknowledge how upsetting it was for me, he would ALWAYS tell me how much the "decision-making process" was causing him to suffer to. I'm like give me a break...you're choosing between two women, how could that be bad for you?? It doesn't matter how much pain I am in, his is always worse, and thus the attention always has to be on him...

[stace79]

Thought you guys might be interested in this...I found it truly enlightening and horribly scary...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

[Liz]

We broke up almost five months ago. He doesnt display some of the key traits, or maybe I dont want to see them. What makes me pause, is that he was really willing to talk about our relationship, at least it seemed. And he would agree with what we needed to work on, but really only expected me to change. Eventhough he would acknolwedge his part verbally, when the time came to change or own up truly, he would say "I told you I am bad in relationships." I felt like I was always being judged. He would tell me that I was the woman for him, and three months later, tell me I was not. He was so 180 in regard to his feelings for me. I am ashamed an heartbroken that I felt so deeply for this person when I was just an instrument to him.

 

Thing is, I feel like I dont know whether or not he ever really loved me. We met in Las Vegas and, it was m.a.g.i.c.a.l. He moved to my town, to FL all the way from CA three months later. Almost immediately, things changed. He grew critical and stopped looking at me in amazement.

 

It's so incredibly hurtful to think that nothing between us was real or mattered to him...at all.

 

How can I reconcile this within myself. I feel like my mind doesnt want to accept it, it is fighting it. I can feel my denial. Like if I accept it, my mind will crash like a computer. I want to move on and be ok. I dont want to be alone for a long time just getting over this *********. I feel like I have given him enough. You know what is the sickest thing? I still have moments when I want to run back to him and pretend it's ok.

 

Help!

 

 

Don't worry, those moments will pass. I know. I was used and abused by a N for two years. Getting beyond the breakup is taking time. I'm in counseling to deal with the post traumatic stress and losses, and have to remember, every day, the reality of what he was and all the ways he hurt me, so that I don't fall back into the trap of thinking of his "nice" side, which was just an act and not really love, but only manipulations to get what he wanted.

 

I'm getting better...doesn't hurt so much after nine months of not seeing him. I am getting hopeful about the future without him. I've learned that there's no fast track to recovery, no matter how much I want to move on and be okay. I still get so angry and sad I can hardly stand it, but it's not as intense as it used to be, and I know that in time, it will end with me not caring a damn anymore because I'm busy living a much, much better life.

 

So, let yourself feel what you feel, know that you're not alone even though most people don't know what you've been through or are going through, and REMEMBER all the horrible crap he did to hurt you with no regard for your well-being or happiness! He's not worth your energy and never was or will be!! He didn't care about anyone but himself and still doesn't. My ex has been recently telling people he knows will pass his messages to me that he still "loves" me (even though he's been living with another woman for awhile, and is "so in love" with her).

 

He's just trying to create drama and mess with other people's lives and feelings, to make himself feel alive or something. What a zero. I've got better things to do, but hey...here I am still working on healing by sharing these thoughts. You know what I mean if you've ever been creamed by an alcoholic, meth addicted, porn addicted, totally self-absorbed and selfish, lying, cheating, doesn't-want-to-work (but always on the take), immature, psycho Narcissit.