Coffee with co-workers?

[Guest]

So, we're seeing a marriage counselor about a number of things. Here's an issue I'm having a hard time with.

 

Among other friendships with women he never mentioned to me, dh spent YEARS having coffee about once a week with a female co-worker and sometimes his male boss. He'd come home hours late, with no phone call, and tell me it was due to taking a nap (he worked nights) on the way home, getting gas, getting groceries, etc. Never once in those years did he mention that he was also having coffee with a woman. Rarely, if ever, did he mention this woman's name.

 

Our counselor is telling me that it's no problem to have coffee with co-workers, male or female.

 

I feel it is a problem to be having social hour every week, with no phone call, when your wife is home alone with small children, virtually a single parent, and about every six weeks cleaning the house for the police's arrival and worried sick, because you're so late. I feel that lies, even of omission, are a HUGE problem. I feel it's a problem when there are also double standards involved (I never left the house at the time, except to go to work, due to his complaining I was neglecting him.)

 

I'm sure I've told the counselor this. If I tell him again, I already know he'll tell me we're starting over, and I can't bring up the past. DH has never admitted there's any problem with what he did, so I figure this is about the future, too-- if it's okay, then it's okay to start doing it again.

 

And just to answer any questions in advance-- no, I'm not insanely jealous of any woman he looks at. That's not what's going on here. He's had plenty of female friends, and talked about plenty of women at work, and I have never once had a problem with that.

 

Is this counselor right? Where do I go from here?

[Guest]

Bump.... ANYBODY? :-(

[Curmudgeon]

Whether he lied directly or lied by omission it's problematic since it obviously bothers you. However, this is about what he "did" which infers it's not about what he's doing now.

 

One of the "fair fighting" tenets my wife and I adhere to is that by-and-large, anything over 48 hours old is ancient history and is not brought up. If it wasn't confronted, discussed, dealt with and laid to rest when it happened it has no bearing on now.

 

If you're truly trying to move ahead with your marriage then I thihnk it would suffice to tell him that this type of behavior would be upsetting to you and WILL be a major issue if it's ever repeated. Then leave it at that.

 

To continuously hold someone accountable for past events they can't return to and make better is decvidedly not in anyone's best interests. Look ahead. The future could be a lot rosier than the past. Hopefully, through counseling, you've both learned a lot about yourselves and one another.

 

I think your counselor's blanket statement is overly simplistic. If it bothers you then it IS a problem.

[HilaryQ]

Hi

 

surprised you haven't had more replies....

 

For me coffee with co-workers is OK, but not when it is hidden away from your spouse. It's the hiding that causes the problems and I guess that's why you're angry / upset. However all relationships have their rules and I'm sure that someone else will think just the opposite.

 

Anyway if your husband knows that it is the not telling you that is causing the problem and promises not to do it again without calling you first would you accept that ?

 

Maybe he didn't call in the past because he knows you would say you would rather he came straight home and he just needs a bit of time between work and home and doesn't want a confrontation.

 

 

The other comments on past history raised a wry smile. My partner and I are on the verge of splitting up because he wants to go through stuff from 1985 and 1990 and ......... He won't let things lie and it is tearing us apart. If he "accepted" the situation twenty years ago why turn it into an issue now? If he didn't accept it then why didn't he walk out THEN when it happened.

 

Please don't end up like us, we cycle through our lives good - bad - good - bad, and the bad is always the same old bad. Don't do what we did - sort it out once and for all and then forget it.

 

good luck

 

H

[Curmudgeon]

surprised you haven't had more replies....

 

Most of the people here seem to be relatively young, unmarried and more intent on discussing their sex lives, real or imagined, than more substantive issues.

 

Is there any way you and your partner can sort this out, get it off his back, lay it to rest and convince him to start looking ahead rather than backwards? Would he agree to help come up with some "fair fighting" rules and adhere to them? It seems a shame to let 20 years evaporate over issues long dead that no one can go back and change anyway.

[Guest]

One of the "fair fighting" tenets my wife and I adhere to is that by-and-large, anything over 48 hours old is ancient history and is not brought up. If it wasn't confronted, discussed, dealt with and laid to rest when it happened it has no bearing on now.

 

For this to work, you both agree to actually deal with it, if it's an issue for one person, right? This wasn't dealt with at the time because I didn't know about it till a year or so ago. Many other things weren't dealt with at the time because H flat-out refused to. When I told him things upset me, he either yelled and insulted me, or literally walked away and refused to deal with it.

 

My other question is, what counts as 'dealt with?' Coming to some agreement or compromise? Achieving some resolution? I don't feel this has been dealt with because there's no resolution; he insists that there's really nothing wrong with what he did. If he truly feels that way, there's no reason he shouldn't do it again. Or why I shouldn't start doing it.

 

To continuously hold someone accountable for past events they can't return to and make better is decvidedly not in anyone's best interests. Look ahead.

I do agree with that, and understand what you're saying. I guess what's holding me up is that he appears RIGHT NOW to think there's nothing wrong with it. So why wouldn't he do it again?

 

I guess what bothers me about the counselor's attitude is that he seems to be dismissing both the whole event, the lying about it, how it affected me and our children-- everything. Can you truly move forward in relationships when one person fails to acknowledge or apologize for the pain they've caused another?

[Guest]

Hi

For me coffee with co-workers is OK, but not when it is hidden away from your spouse. It's the hiding that causes the problems and I guess that's why you're angry / upset.

It's the lying; also many issues surrounding it, many of which I already mentioned. As I said, I never had a problem with him having friends of either sex. I have a problem with double standards, with his coffee dates cutting into our family life and marriage, with not so much as the courtesy of a phone call, with being dismissed and ridiculed when I finally told him how his extreme and daily tardiness affected me.

 

 

Anyway if your husband knows that it is the not telling you that is causing the problem and promises not to do it again without calling you first would you accept that ?

He doesn't really acknowledge that lying to your spouse is a problem. Or he tells me that somehow it's my fault he lied. He does not accept responsibility for his own actions.

 

Maybe he didn't call in the past because he knows you would say you would rather he came straight home and he just needs a bit of time between work and home and doesn't want a confrontation.

I guess to me, that's a problem. Obviously, if one spouse is keeping the other under their thumb, I can see where someone would do that. But, he had plenty of time between work and home doing the other things he DID tell me about, and I never complained. And I do see a problem, assuming you're dealing with a reasonable spouse, in doing something hurtful to your spouse and then just lying to avoid a confrontation.

 

If he "accepted" the situation twenty years ago why turn it into an issue now? If he didn't accept it then why didn't he walk out THEN when it happened.

I don't know your situation, of course, but I can speak to what is happening here. I didn't accept the situation then. I didn't know about this particular one. There were things I did know about. I didn't accept them, but he refused to deal with them. When I tried to talk about things that were a problem, he either literally walked away and refused to listen, or yelled at and insulted me and then went to complain to his co-workers about me with half-truths and came back to report to me how all his friends, family, and co-workers thought {insert string of negatives} about me. I became afraid to say anything. Every time I tried, things got worse. So I tried to go about my own life and be happy with the good things in my life.

 

 

Please don't end up like us, we cycle through our lives good - bad - good - bad, and the bad is always the same old bad. Don't do what we did - sort it out once and for all and then forget it.

 

good luck

 

H

 

Thank you. I'm trying not to end up like that. Some acknowledgement and apology on his part would sure make it easier. I guess that what makes it hard to 'sort it out,' is being told that I'm 'ridiculous,' irrational, and unreasonable for objecting to anything. The resentment and anger has really become quite deep over the years.