At the end of my rope...

[Quiet Robert]

I am at the end of my rope and do not know what else to do. I will warn, this is a long post. I will try to keep it to just relevant information. Here is my story...

 

My wife and I have been married for about three and a half years. We have two kids, 3 and less than one year. When we started dating, we were great. We played, we had fun, it was nice. After we had our son, things slowed down in bed. They picked back up until we had our daughter. We have had sex at best, six times in the last 18 months, and none since before Christmas. Even when we do, I get nothing from her. No foreplay, no nothing. She does not even seem to be into it. We have talked about it and she says that she feels ugly after having the kids. I tell her that I still love her and think she is beautiful. She does not want to have anything to do with me physically. We fight a lot. Things have gotten progressively worse.

 

Most recently, she has gone back to school and is much more interested in that than me. To the point of talking about the hot teacher and hot Grad Assistant that she wanted to "f**k" the first time she saw them. She went on a school trip that they happened to be on and I did not see her for a full week. When got home, all she talked about was those two guys and how much fun she had. She never talks about me that way anymore. She talks about how much she wants to "f**k" them (her word), yet her husband tries everything and she want budge. Yesterday was V-Day, and the worst moment of all. I dropped about $60 on lingerie. I was HOPING it would get something going, it was V-Day after all. I got no "Thank you" that I did not drag out of her. When I asked her where it was, I did not see it in the house, she said it was in her car. Not only did she not really thank me without asking if she liked it, she did not even bring it in the house. I figured we were not going to do anything last night, we did not even do anything on our anniversary, but I thought she might put it on so I could at least see what it looked like on her or at the VERY least, bring it in the house. We had no physical contact yesterday, short of our arms touching because we sleep in a small bed. Not even a kiss.

 

What should I do? I love her, but this is ridiculous. She has acknowledged that their is a problem, and even how to fix it, yet she has not done so, and the acknowledgment was in October. she says she does not want to separate, but I am not sure how much longer I can take this. She does nothing around the house. she is a slob that I clean up after. I do all the house work, dishes, laundry, the only one with a job...EVERYTHING. All she does is go to school. Every time I ask her to do something because she has some free time, she says she will then takes a nap and says she is sorry. I am tired of being a maid, babysitter, and cook. I am ready to be a husband again.

 

Any advice?

[LuckyStar26]

Sounds to me like your W may be suffering from PND (Post Natal Depression). From reading your post, she certainly seems to be displaying some of the classic symptoms.

 

Try googling "Post Natal Depression" and you will find alot of information about it and how to recognise it in somebody else.

 

How does your W act around your children? Is she actively involved in their lives or does she leave much of the upbringing to you? Has she bonded with them and does she show them much affection?

 

People don't realise how many women actually suffer with PND as it seems to effect each individual woman differently, but it is a very real illness that should be dealt with professsionally. I really think you should look into this.

[Gunny376]

Its very important that you follow the following very carefully:

 

1. Go home tonight to the house.

2. Walk in the bedroom

3. Open suitcase

4. Fill with her clothes.

5. Thow her and the suitcase in the car

6. Drop her, suitcase, off at a. Mama's house, b. TA's house, c. Professors house

7. Go home change the locks on the doors

8. Get all the accounts and money in your name

9. Call an attorney, and make an appointment.

10. Go no-contact

[Gunny376]

Sounds to me like your W may be suffering from PND (Post Natal Depression). From reading your post, she certainly seems to be displaying some of the classic symptoms.

 

Try googling "Post Natal Depression" and you will find alot of information about it and how to recognise it in somebody else.

 

How does your W act around your children? Is she actively involved in their lives or does she leave much of the upbringing to you? Has she bonded with them and does she show them much affection?

 

People don't realise how many women actually suffer with PND as it seems to effect each individual woman differently, but it is a very real illness that should be dealt with professsionally. I really think you should look into this.

 

What she's suffering from is wanting to "scrogg" someone else! She's wanting to play ~ while Daddy pays and does all the work and up-keep!

 

You can call it PND, PMS, T-PMS, ABC for all I care. My wife comes home telling me about some guy she wanting to f**k, I'm going to alievate the three things holding her back, "time, air,and opportunity" I'm going to make this little gals dreams a reality!

[Quiet Robert]

Sounds to me like your W may be suffering from PND (Post Natal Depression). From reading your post, she certainly seems to be displaying some of the classic symptoms.

 

Try googling "Post Natal Depression" and you will find alot of information about it and how to recognise it in somebody else.

 

How does your W act around your children? Is she actively involved in their lives or does she leave much of the upbringing to you? Has she bonded with them and does she show them much affection?

 

People don't realise how many women actually suffer with PND as it seems to effect each individual woman differently, but it is a very real illness that should be dealt with professsionally. I really think you should look into this.

 

She has a prescription for Zoloft, but never takes it. She has said she needs to see a dr. about getting meds for her lack of sex drive, but she said that 4 months ago and has yet to do it. Any addict will tell you, admitting you have a problem, recognizing a solution, and failure to solve it means you do not want to fix it.

 

She is involved with the kids, but she does not make them a priority all the time. She spends all her time at school (majoring in theatre) and leaves the kids to me a lot. When she is left with the kids for more than one day, she freaks out. Whe was home with them over Christmas break and after three days she told me she was going out because "she just HAD to get out of the house." Yet she leaves me to watch them while she goes and does her theatre thing EVERY night until god-knows when. She also likes to run to her mom's with the kids in lieu of watching the kids solo.

[Quiet Robert]

Its very important that you follow the following very carefully:

 

1. Go home tonight to the house.

2. Walk in the bedroom

3. Open suitcase

4. Fill with her clothes.

5. Thow her and the suitcase in the car

6. Drop her, suitcase, off at a. Mama's house, b. TA's house, c. Professors house

7. Go home change the locks on the doors

8. Get all the accounts and money in your name

9. Call an attorney, and make an appointment.

10. Go no-contact

 

 

Can't do that... we live in on-campus married housing in HER name. I am the one who would have to leave.

 

Basically it comes down to me not being what she wants anymore.

[MoonGirl]

QR,

 

She's majoring in theatre??? Not to be mean or anything, but unless she's going Broadway, there isn't much money in theatre. So, what's her justification to ignore and abandon you and the kids to spend all her time majoring in theater? The answer: to fulfill her own selfish desires. I got my Master's degree after I had my first child, and that took up a lot of my time...BUT it also resulted in a huge increase in pay at work to help support my kids. In the long run, it was worth the sacrifice. From my point of view (and probably everyone else's too), your wife's activities are not worth the sacrifice. In my humble opinion, when your wife made the choice to have children, she should have chosen to put them before anything else.

 

Certainly, there are medical conditions that can affect one's ability to care for her children and/or husband after the arrival of a child, but based on the fact that your wife spends a significant amount of time outside the home with her friends, I'm inclined to say that such medical conditions are not the culprit. Even so, if she breast feeds, her libido could be terribly low. She could have post-partum depression (doesn't sound likely). Was she on the pill or any other hormonal birth control before you had children?

 

This is a tough situation for you, and I'm sorry to say it may get worse before it gets better. Like your wife, my husband didn't realize that his party days should have been over once the kids arrived. He went out 3-4 nights a week, came home at 3-4am smelling of alcohol and joints, etc. After a few years of that along with some pretty horrible verbal and some physical abuse, the kids and I left.

 

Don't let your wife take advantage of you. Tell her to get a job and help you take care of the kids you made together or to help you around the house. Talk to an attorney and then pack your things up and leave with the kids if you have to. You have to do something to get her to wake up or your situation will just get worse.

[Quiet Robert]

QR,

 

She's majoring in theatre??? Not to be mean or anything, but unless she's going Broadway, there isn't much money in theatre. So, what's her justification to ignore and abandon you and the kids to spend all her time majoring in theater? The answer: to fulfill her own selfish desires. I got my Master's degree after I had my first child, and that took up a lot of my time...BUT it also resulted in a huge increase in pay at work to help support my kids. In the long run, it was worth the sacrifice. From my point of view (and probably everyone else's too), your wife's activities are not worth the sacrifice. In my humble opinion, when your wife made the choice to have children, she should have chosen to put them before anything else.

 

Certainly, there are medical conditions that can affect one's ability to care for her children and/or husband after the arrival of a child, but based on the fact that your wife spends a significant amount of time outside the home with her friends, I'm inclined to say that such medical conditions are not the culprit. Even so, if she breast feeds, her libido could be terribly low. She could have post-partum depression (doesn't sound likely). Was she on the pill or any other hormonal birth control before you had children?

 

This is a tough situation for you, and I'm sorry to say it may get worse before it gets better. Like your wife, my husband didn't realize that his party days should have been over once the kids arrived. He went out 3-4 nights a week, came home at 3-4am smelling of alcohol and joints, etc. After a few years of that along with some pretty horrible verbal and some physical abuse, the kids and I left.

 

Don't let your wife take advantage of you. Tell her to get a job and help you take care of the kids you made together or to help you around the house. Talk to an attorney and then pack your things up and leave with the kids if you have to. You have to do something to get her to wake up or your situation will just get worse.

 

 

I know. Money is a big source of our problems. she keeps spending it without making it. I have asked her over and over again to get a job and she says she can't. Although I know a number of our mutual friends that work and major in theatre. The other problem is that she does no know what she is going to do with it once she graduates. She wants to go straight into Grad School and I told her no. I have been the sole support of this family for almost a year now and will continue to be so until January.

 

She was on the pill between the two kids (went off to have the 2nd) and is back on. She was not on the pill when we met. She does have emotional problems and she knows that, but does not always take her meds. She has had a perscription at CVS for over a month that she has not picked up for her Zoloft.

 

She said she was going to go get tested for Bi-Polar and has yet to do that. she is selfish and lazy and she admits it. The only reason I put up with it is for my kids. If it were not for them, I would have left a long time ago. She has a violent, vengeful family and a D would get UGLY, but I can't keep living like this.

[Quiet Robert]

Well, the gift is still in her car. Still nothing from her. She told me last night that I was a "Good Boy." Whatever that means. To tally the score, in the last two weeks I have been called a "Good Boy", that I was cuddly, and warm to snuggle with. So is an f'ing St. Bernard. She does cuddle up to me in bed, but is is only because she is cold.

 

I am going to let the gift sit until she brings it in. I am curious how long she will keep it in her car.

[Mz. Pixie]

She could be bipolar.

 

Tell her she needs to get to her doctor and get checked out or you want to talk about a separation.

 

Her telling you she wants to F**K another man shows her thought process isn't right. If my H told me he wanted to have sex with another woman to my face I'd be making his dreams a reality.

 

If she is bipolar she can only stay functional if she's on medication. Not being medicated is not an option for almost all people who are bipolar. But with medication she could live a full, happy, healthy life.

 

Being bipolar is not an excuse to treat you like crap, which is what she is doing and not showing any respect for you whatsoever.

[Ladyjane14]

I am going to let the gift sit until she brings it in. I am curious how long she will keep it in her car.

 

There's nothing PROACTIVE about that, Robert. Take some action. MzPixie's right. People with mental illnesses are STILL accountable when it comes to relationships, much in the same way and alcoholic might be. They have to commit themselves to treatment. A marital relationship can only be as healthy as the two people involved in it.

 

Go out to her car. Bring the gift inside. And ASK her what's going on.

 

And if it was me... I'd make TWO appointments next week, one with a therapist and one with an attorney. Then I'd ask her which one she wanted to keep.

 

I agree with you that marriage is an important committment. But I only believe in the "in sickness and in health" vow up to the point where one party CHOOSES to stay sick.

[Quiet Robert]

I agree with you that marriage is an important committment. But I only believe in the "in sickness and in health" vow up to the point where one party CHOOSES to stay sick.

 

 

 

I never actually looked at it that way.

[Quiet Robert]

There's nothing PROACTIVE about that, Robert. Take some action.

 

 

 

Just a point of clarification...my screen name is not indicative of my current actions. I am not a "Robert who is remaining Quiet." Is is an allusion to my favorite movie director, Kevin Smith who played Silent Bob. So...Quiet Robert = Silent Bob. Get it?

[MoonGirl]

Robert,

 

You have to do something about the way she is treating you. It is not fair for you or the kids to live like that. I was so scared to be on my own with 2 kids, but, you know what, it's not so bad. It's a heck of a lot better than putting up with my husband's crap every day.

 

Divorces are never fun, and are often very stressful. Be sure to talk to a lawyer before you make any decision because, since your wife refuses to work, you'll have to pay child support if she gets physical custody of the kids.

 

If you want custody of the kids, be sure to keep a journal of your wife's activities. Write down where she is and when, what time she comes home, if she says anything strange to you. If she emails you something strange make sure to save it; record your conversations, especially those about what's in the kids' best interests and how she spends too much time partying with friends. Be sure to find out if your state allows these recordings as evidence in court.

 

The reason I asked about the pill earlier is that there is some evidence that women who were on the pill when they met their husband no longer feel attracted to him after they go off the pill. The same is true for the reverse situation. If your wife was not on the pill when you met, but is on the pill now, then it could change her attraction to you. If this is the case, there are some non-hormonal birth control options (copper IUD). But it sounds like she really needs to take care of some other things too...like getting around to taking her meds.

[Gunny376]

It would help us, to follow your story if you just post to one thread ~ you've got three of them going at present ~ Thx

 

I'd take MG's and LJ's advice.

 

Then I would sit down and in writing clearly define what it you take for you to stay in the marriage, (a complete mental and physical evaluation ~ check up, IC and MC (Individual and Marriage Counseling), picking up her share of the load with the housework, with the children, the marriage, decide what "offenses" are minor, major and intolerable, clearly define my bounderies.

 

And, then I would sit down and have a long chat with the wife, stating the above. I wouldn't deliver any ultimatims in the form of "or else" but, I'd be laying down the "law" in clearly defined terms, no yelling, no screaming, no getting mad. Cool, calm, and collected.

 

Then I'd give her say ninety days. If there's no change, at the thirty, sixty day mark ~ I'd let her know I was considering separtaion and then divorce. Meanwhile I'd be getting my ducks in a row, and taking the steps prepatory toward that end.

[MoonGirl]

Great advice Gunny!

 

Yes, I would attempt to save the marriage. I made several attempts to save mine, and now I don't feel the slightest bit guilty that I left my husband. I gave him my agenda in life...which went something like "no calling me names, no hitting me, no disrespecting me in private or public, no cheating on me, blablabla." Over time I realized he was not willing to change; in fact, he got worse. lol. But, some people do change, especially if they think their marriage will end.

 

During the last 5 months of living with my husband, I spent my time journaling his strange activities, recording his temper, and preparing myself mentally and emotionally to leave.

 

Don't leave hastily because you may regret it.

[Quiet Robert]

I took the first steps this weekend and they did not go well. I left her a 3-page "State of OUR Union" and took the kids to my parents for the weekend. She had theatre work all weekend, but would have some time to read it and think about it. She did not take that time. She read it, replied immediately, then went to her parents for the weekend.

 

I tried VERY hard to make the letter I wrote her civil. I never accused her of anything, I never blamed her for anything. I just said this is how it is, this is how your actions make me feel and this is what I think needs to change if we are going to save this marriage. I mentioned her crush on the teacher, her medial issues, the V-Day incident and the lack of intimacy. Her answer was not as polite. She was defensive, cold, and took several cheap shots. I tried to call her and she said she did not want to discuss it over the phone. I asked her when and she dais soon. Not sure when soon will be because she is tied up all week until well into the night with theatre stuff.

 

I offered several plans of action that she did not agree with. I offered counseling, but as I mentioned I need cheap. She agreed to counseling, just not where I offered. I offered a preacher because they would work with our schedules better and would most likely be free. She said hell no. She does not want to be preached to. I also offered a separation to give her time to herself to figure out and treat her medical problems. I offered to take the kids. Well, that supportive offer of time to deal with her problems without worrying about me or the kids turned into, at least according to her, as a threat and conspiracy to take the kids.

 

So here we are. I put it out there, now I have to wait for her to decide to talk about it. Do I push her to talk about it? I thought this would get her attention, but it does not seem to have.

[MoonGirl]

I'm glad you put down some rules. Your wife's reaction doesn't sound good.

 

The nightly theatre outings have got to go. What kind of wife and mother spends each night away from home (unless she's working)??? This is crazy, QR...but you already know that. To me, it sounds like she's having an affair, at least on an emotional level. Women who are truly devoted to their husbands and families do not behave the way your wife is behaving. It sounds like she wants you to work and care for the kids while she plays.

 

Of course your wife doesn't want to be preached to! She knows how wrong her behavior is! Too bad for her, but a therapist is going to point out what she's doing wrong too.

 

Have you told your parents what's going on? How did they react? I remember how nervous I was when I told my parents about the way my husband had been behaving, but the support I have gotten from them has been wonderful.

[Quiet Robert]

The nightly theatre outings have got to go. What kind of wife and mother spends each night away from home (unless she's working)??? This is crazy, QR...but you already know that. To me, it sounds like she's having an affair, at least on an emotional level. Women who are truly devoted to their husbands and families do not behave the way your wife is behaving. It sounds like she wants you to work and care for the kids while she plays.

 

She considers it work because it is school and she is a full-time student and that is her job. That has been the biggest problem. She is having an affair with the theatre. What sux is that they all accept that. There is a theatre professor that says "the theatre is a cruel mistress." I don't get how they can see that and just accept it. The problem is she wants to be a 20-year-old college student like her friends who just have boyfriends and no responsibilities.

 

Have you told your parents what's going on? How did they react? I remember how nervous I was when I told my parents about the way my husband had been behaving, but the support I have gotten from them has been wonderful.

 

My mom knows 95% of it, if not more. My dad knows 75% of it. there are some things I have kept from my dad because no good can come from it right now. They are supportive. They are just upset that I am hurting.

[MoonGirl]

"the theatre is a cruel mistress"

 

WTF??? These people are living in la-la-land. So it sounds like your wife's addiction to her fantasy world is more important than real life. Sad. It's like a reverse-martyr. She wants to martyr you and the kids for the sake of her art. I'll bet "you'd just never understand" the importance of her art. lol.

 

I'm not sure what to tell you, Robert. Your wife needs a serious dose of reality. The fact that she hangs out with people who have no responsibilities and support the idea of sacrificing her family for the sake of art is not good.

 

How does she interact with the kids? Does she play with them, feed them, change them? Does she engage them with books, coloring, toys? Or do you do most of that? Who puts them to bed at night?

[MoonGirl]

BTW, I'm glad your mom knows what's going on. It's good to have someone who you can talk to and who supports you.

[Quiet Robert]

How does she interact with the kids? Does she play with them, feed them, change them? Does she engage them with books, coloring, toys? Or do you do most of that? Who puts them to bed at night?

 

 

She feeds the little one. We take turns on the changing. She plays with the little one and spends a LOT of time with her. She has not played with our son in a long time. She only plays with him if it is simple things like coloring or play-do. She does not play physically with him. He is a three year old little boy. He wants to run and wrestle and be a boy. She spends most of her time with our daughter. I do my best to make time for our son I have both kids solo because my daughter is so demanding. She does not. She puts our daughter to bed and I put out son. My daughter gets excited and wants to play with me so it is easier for her to put her to bed, however, that option is no longer valid because from now until the end of April, I will have both kids M-F from 7 to ??? by myself so she can go do her theatre thing.

 

I do almost everything around the house. I cook, clean, dishes, laundry, and now the kids. She says she has no time to do that stuff, but also says she is lazy. she openly admits that she is lazy and will not change. She also admits that she is selfish. What is bad is her selfishness and laziness play off each other because she is not lazy if it is something that pertains to her or benefits her.

[Gunny376]

I don't know what you call this ~ but its not a marriage.

[MoonGirl]

QR,

 

How old is your wife? It sounds like she is 16!

 

Listen, as you already know, her school activities are destroying your marriage. Being at theater practice every night is not a job; it is a fun activity. Instead of caring for her husband and children, and doing some housework, she is PLAYING. She is acting like a child.

 

My husband was also very lazy around the house. During our marriage he never made one meal (not even for himself!), he didn't clean, didn't do the laundry, and rarely did the dishes (if I begged). Like you, I worked full-time, took care of the house and the kids, and had almost no time for myself while my husband was out with his friends and other women. I know how exhausted and resentful you must feel.

 

I'm glad she helps with the baby, but leaving you with 2 very young kids every night is not right. I know how hard it is to care for 2 very young children (my kids are 2 and 3), and I know that sometimes the older one gets left out. As the baby gets older, things will get easier for you. Try to include your son in the care of the baby. He'll get more attention from you, and it will help him bond with his little sister. If you can leave the baby with your parents and take your son out for an hour or 2 occasionally, that will help too.

 

Do you and your wife ever do anything together as a couple? In the past did you do anything as a couple? What are the things you liked to do together? Is the theater obsession new for her or has it been going on for a long time?

[Quiet Robert]

QR,

 

How old is your wife? It sounds like she is 16!

 

Listen, as you already know, her school activities are destroying your marriage. Being at theater practice every night is not a job; it is a fun activity. Instead of caring for her husband and children, and doing some housework, she is PLAYING. She is acting like a child.

 

My husband was also very lazy around the house. During our marriage he never made one meal (not even for himself!), he didn't clean, didn't do the laundry, and rarely did the dishes (if I begged). Like you, I worked full-time, took care of the house and the kids, and had almost no time for myself while my husband was out with his friends and other women. I know how exhausted and resentful you must feel.

 

I'm glad she helps with the baby, but leaving you with 2 very young kids every night is not right. I know how hard it is to care for 2 very young children (my kids are 2 and 3), and I know that sometimes the older one gets left out. As the baby gets older, things will get easier for you. Try to include your son in the care of the baby. He'll get more attention from you, and it will help him bond with his little sister. If you can leave the baby with your parents and take your son out for an hour or 2 occasionally, that will help too.

 

Do you and your wife ever do anything together as a couple? In the past did you do anything as a couple? What are the things you liked to do together? Is the theater obsession new for her or has it been going on for a long time?

 

 

She is 25, I am 26. We do some things together, but not much because of child care and her schedule. We did things as a couple for a bit, but money has usually prevented that. We usually just went to movies or something like that. We tried to go out for our anniversary every year, just depends on the money.

 

The theatre obsession is new in that she had to drop out of school when we had our son and just went back, but it has always been there. I supported her going back to school and even helped her get back in, but not at the expense of our marriage. Things were getting bad, but this has made it so much worse.

 

The problem is she has wanted to go back to school and now that she has she acts like she is a kid again and I have told her that she cannot be a college student like she was. I would love to go out and get drunk or high with my friends, but I grew up. I still enjoy drinking, but I keep it in perspective. I have found a release for myself with the Masons. I joined the Freemasons back in November and they have given me an outlet for myself.