I can't tell if it's love or addiction...

[tanbark813]

Okay, so back in February of this year, I brokeup with my gf at the time of 5 months. The were a lot of things going on in our relationship that led me to this board and is how I first came across all the great advice here.

 

I was deeply in love with her but had to call it off because of a LOT of dishonesty. It was an agonizing breakup and the hardest thing I've ever been through. It slowly got better and after some time I was back to my usual self, if not a little wiser and stronger than my previous self.

 

Around April she contacted me because she wanted me to design a tattoo for her. I did and saw her for the first time in months when she came to pick it up. We discussed at length our relationship and she suggested we get back together. But something in my gut told me not to and the lines she was feeding me were just bs so nothing ever came of it.

 

She emailed every so often after that and a few weeks ago we both got out of relationships we were in and she invited me to hang out with her one night. Since that night we've seen each other about 5 or 6 times. It was nice to catch up with her and I genuinely had a good time. She seems like she's learned a few lessons over the past year and although she had a wall up at first, I managed to get her to let her guard down a bit so I could pick her brain.

 

I knew that old feelings would resurface, and they did. I also knew that attachment would develop, and it did. And even though I knew all this, every time the opportunity came up to hang out with her again I would tell myself, "Okay, just one more time. Just a little bit more and it will be fine." I was thinking about this the other night and realized I had been using the same line of reasoning (if it can be called reasoning) that a heroin addict would.

 

I also knew, however, that this couldn't go on forever. I can be friends with other ex's, but not with this one. I was too in love with her to ever be able to be completely platonic with her. She and I both know we can't be friends in the true sense of the word and have discussed this a couple times. I knew that sooner or later a decision would need to be made conclusively about which way to take things.

 

It all finally came to a head on Sunday. We got into a minor argument basically because I thought we had plans and she didn't. It was nothing big, but she took it rather seriously and when we spoke later on the phone that evening we talked about where this was all going. She basically wanted space to think about things since she wasn't 100% sure. Typical bs line and I know there's more to it than that.

 

A lot of things have been put in perspective in my life lately and I've also developed a lack of patience for bulls***. This girl and I had our problems but I don't think they're such that we could never have a good relationship. I hated having to walk away from what we had and there have been many a late night in the past several months that I've thought about her and wished things could be different. Hell, I've gone so far as to hug a pillow while I slept and pretend it was her.

 

I sent a 2-page email to her yesterday summing up all my thoughts about everything. Normally I would have kept my mouth shut, but life is much too short and love is far too important to waste time playing games. I haven't heard back from her yet, but I sent it yesterday afternoon and it's only 11am this morning so I'm not surprised. If I don't ever hear back from her, though, at least I will have my answer as to what to do.

 

If this were someone else's post I was reading on here, I would tell myself that she's playing mind games and to forget about her. Which may be the case and what I need to do. I was hoping with everything in me that she had changed a little, but these next couple days will tell me one way or another if she has.

 

I'm not sure I have any specific advice to seek, but comments, of course, are always appreciated. Afterall, that's why we all post here in the first place. And it's always nice to vent.

 

 

PS - The usual "Tanbark's Rule for Long Posts" applies here. I owe a six-pack to anyone who read the whole thing.

 

[YoungWerther]

I can definitely relate to everything you're saying, as I have been in a reminiscient situation.

 

First, get clear about what she has done in the past VS. what she has said to you. Which things match up? Which are inconsistent? If the incidents of her telling you one thing and doing another are numerous, then you are right about the mind games.

 

Remember, though, that people rarely consciously play 'mind games.' A lot of manipulation is an unconscious reaction to fear of being rejected (like, 'i'll reject him before he gets a chance to do it to me.')

 

I was thinking about this the other night and realized I had been using the same line of reasoning (if it can be called reasoning) that a heroin addict would.

 

We both know this implies an unhealthy attachment. How successful have you been with her, in the past, with 'picking her brain,' getting her to share what she is feeling? If historically you feel frustrated whenever you try to communicate your feelings with her, then it does not bode well for your future with her. Both parties have to be willing to expend the energy and effort on the ocassional heart to heart. Now if one person is constantly badgering the other about one issue over and over, it would make sense she would clam up and stop sharing. But if you're trying to bring up things that have never been fully discussed, and she's unwilling, then you should start guarding your feelings a little closer.

 

I was too in love with her to ever be able to be completely platonic with her.

 

I understand this feeling... Perhaps over time you would be able to accept thing platonically, but for now, just keep being honest with yourself about what you can and can't deal with. Know your boundaries. Don't let your emotions and your attachment dictate what you do... don't deny your emotions, but don't let them control your actions.

 

You absolutely did the right thing by writing her and sharing your feelings. Just understand that how she responds, or whether she chooses to respond, is up to her now.

 

Make an informal inventory about the things she does for you, and the things you wish could be better but aren't. Then accept that the 'wish could be better' thing aren't possible... and can you live without them?

 

I wish you all the best,

~yw

[tanbark813]

Thanks for the good response, YW.

 

She has been inconsistent in our relationship the first time around, but she seems a little more straightforward now. Over the past year or so that I've gotten to know her she basically has two sides: She can be sweet and caring and genuinely concerned with making someone she cares about feel better. She also has the side that is more devious and selfish and is used when her guard is up about a situation she's not sure about or fearful of. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

I'm getting better at seeing through her guard to how she really feels but at the moment that I'm writing this, her guard is up full force to the point of suspending communication with me. If she were willing to let her guard down with me and know that I could give her the loyalty and respect she needs--provided it was reciprocated--then I think things would be okay. But I'm not so sure she has that much faith in me or is willing to take that leap in the first place.

 

I've walked away once when the lies became too much, so she knows I can leave her again if I have to. I think that's what she fears most. I just wish I could convince her that if she never lied to me I would never leave, but I don't think she can trust me, or anybody, enough to believe that. She has a pattern of keeping people at a distance and I don't think she's really ready to break that pattern.

 

She's already told me herself that she doesn't trust anyone, not even her own family. She's convinced that everyone in her life will leave her eventually because they already have. But some people haven't left, they've been pushed away. Like I was. She says she can't change this but I know she could if she wanted to. I know for a fact she could, but she doesn't believe in herself enough. I don't know if she ever will.

 

And, dammit, I think I just answered a lot of my own questions about the situation.

 

As far as not allowing my emotions to control me, but also not denying them completely, I totally agree. I've been doing the best I can at that as well.

 

And you're also right about the attachment not being healthy. I guess the twisted thing is, I'm willing to live with that if it means I can have her with me for good. The feelings I have for her are strong enough that I would be willing to risk the pain to repair things between us. Life is funny like that sometimes, I guess.

[YoungWerther]

You and I are currently in very similar situations (and both in the same region of the US).

 

her guard is up full force to the point of suspending communication with me. If she were willing to let her guard down with me

 

As we both know, that is something that 1) she will have to ease into on her own terms and 2) will probably take a long time and may not happen w/you. When her only priority is protecting herself, she will not truly hear what you are trying to explain to her, no matter how articulate you are being, no matter how much space you give her. No amount of carefully chosen words can sway someone who has numbed themselves off from emotional intimacy. And are you really willing to wait around and be in a situation with someone who is emotionally hot/cold, hoping that eventually it will stabalize?

 

She's convinced that everyone in her life will leave her eventually because they already have. But some people haven't left, they've been pushed away.

 

Good observation. Exactly the kind you need to be making at this point. And you know what, she will probably do everything in her power to prevent feeling like the one who did the 'pushing away,' even if it means temporarily opening up to you again. It's a small sacrifice for someone who's only other alternative is to sit around and feel responsible for someone's pain and heartbreak.

 

I guess the twisted thing is, I'm willing to live with that if it means I can have her with me for good. The feelings I have for her are strong enough that I would be willing to risk the pain to repair things between us. Life is funny like that sometimes, I guess.

 

I feel exactly the same way about my situation. I'm also willing to live with the instability, but I get the feeling she is subtlely discouraging me from doing it, saying 'you don't need that. i don't expect you to wait around. you're feeling as rejected as I am guilty' etc etc. Right now the feeling of loss is beginning to rear its ugly head, and I'm starting to make those painful associations (like, a movie or song or commercial we shared that comes on and just freaks me out). I'd do anything to avoid that feeling that I 'didn't do enough' to keep her with me. And it's already been a day without contact w/her and it's becoming obvious that I have stopped being a priority. And perhaps in a week or so, when I have retreated for long enough, she will contact me again and the cycle will start all over again. I have to ask myself if this is happiness, or if it simply something to endure.

 

But tell yourself this: You are doing enough. You are doing whatever you can, and if historically that has not settled the issue between you and her, then it may never. Don't give up your love & caring for her... but look after yourself as well. Putting someone's happiness before your own can be a noble act, but in another context it's called co-dependency, which is synonymous with unhealthy attachment. I should know.. I come from a long family of codependents.

 

Good luck, sincerely.

[tanbark813]

After some recent internet trouble, I'm finally able to post an update here.

 

I finally heard back from my ex on Wednesday morning. I was actually surprised at the hostility contained in her response. She ranted at length about how she's not ready for anything and that it's ridiculous that she should be expected to just run back into my arms now that I'm ready. She said that she wanted to get back together months ago but I didn't, so now maybe I will understand the pain that she suffered then. She also denied wanting to play the field (which I had called her on in my first email) and said that she just didn't feel that I respect or trust her enough now, or ever will for that matter.

 

I wrote back and calmly re-explained the things that were misconstrued. I said that it wasn't that I necessarily expect her to just run back into my arms, but that I wanted her to know that I would be open to that if she chose to do so. I told her that I don't expect her to make a decision about being with me immediately, but that my position had changed from months back when she wanted to get back together the first time. I told her that I wasn't fully over the break-up and although the timing was bad, I don't think it's all that surprising that I wasn't ready.

 

She replied back once more, kindly stating that she lost faith in the possibility of "us" months ago and she just doesn't think it's in the stars for us to be together. She also said that since we can't really be friends, then this must be goodbye.

 

So I sent her my final email which just said that it's a shame that timing got in the way. I said goodbye and wished her well in life.

 

So it looks like things won't be rekindled afterall. I'm glad I at least extended my hand though, even if she didn't reach for it. I would have always wondered "what if" had I not let her know how I really felt. And I will always be thankful for what time we did share.

 

The thing that was getting to me, however, is that if she knew she lost faith months ago and didn't think we could ever be together, why contact me? Why begin to hang out with me, and sleep with me, and form those old bonds again when she knew they would need to be broken? The most likely answer, and one with which my friends agree, is that she probably just set up a scenario for herself in which she got to be the one to do the walking away.

 

Oh well, live and learn.....

 

So thanks for the input, YW, it was good advice. I hope your situation ends up playing out better than mine did.

[YoungWerther]

The thing that was getting to me, however, is that if she knew she lost faith months ago and didn't think we could ever be together, why contact me? Why begin to hang out with me, and sleep with me, and form those old bonds again when she knew they would need to be broken? The most likely answer, and one with which my friends agree, is that she probably just set up a scenario for herself in which she got to be the one to do the walking away.

 

You are right. I am glad you were able to walk away with a degree of civility. It's not always easy to do it that way, and I commend you.

 

My situation ended this week at last. I often asked myself why, even after I tried to break away from the relationship twice (because it was obvious that she wasn't 'there' anymore), she always contacted me and pulled me back to her.

 

The reason was what you just stated. She wanted to control the wherefores and whys of the outcome. At the time I thought it was because she wanted me in her life (how stupid of me).

 

This week I discovered that all of her stating "i just don't want anyone in my life; it's not you, it's me" was a smokescreen. She has been seeing other guys for the last few months.

 

I am not a possessive person and not the jealous type, but I do always expect a certain level of honesty in a relationship. The fact that she was unable to be honest with me, even when confronted, is what hurts the most.

 

So I sent her an email asking her not to email or call me again.

 

She replied, accused me of being possessive and jealous (something no one has ever accused me of in 10-some odd years of dating, I am very 'live and let live'). She also flung some pretty low and petty insults my way (something I avoided doing thankfully). All I wanted was honesty. I didn't demand her time, her love, her obedience, always kept a considerate distance when I knew she didn't want to be bothered, was always there when she needed me. But if I asked one thing of her the whole time, it was honesty.

 

I was just trying to get a general idea of where she stood emotionally. I should have followed my instincts that she had lost interest in me and should have stayed away and wished her the best. Instead, I gave her the benefit of the doubt and wanted to see this thing through, no matter what.

 

That she was able to juggle other guys on the side with a straight face, is amazing to me. I have learned a lot from this experience. I feel like a fool for expending so much emotional energy on a person who was so distant and vague with me. I deserve better.

 

Anyway, thanks for all your input and I wish you the best.

 

~yw

[butterflyz]

that you both were strung along. it sucks doesn't it.

 

hopefully you'll find other people that won't lie. lies are terrible. and sneakiness and underhandedness is unforgivable.

[tanbark813]

This is mainly to vent, but advice is always welcomed with open arms.

 

I posted a couple weeks ago about seeing my ex again rather regularly after she and I had both gotten out of relationships we were involved in after the initial breakup back in February. The attachment and old feelings resurfaced and things were going well until it came time to make a decision. I let her know I was open to a reconciliation but she said that she lost faith in us months ago and just doesn't think we're meant to be together anymore. I told her I couldn't be just friends with her and that would mean we would have to say goodbye for good. So we did.

 

After two weeks of silence I got a short email from her Friday wishing me well at my new job. I emailed back on Monday with a simple "Thanks". Nothing more. Then her best friend emailed me--apparently without my ex's knowledge--saying that my ex is constantly talking about how much she misses me and loves me but is too scared to try anything with me because she remembers the pain of losing me the first time. I replied to her friend stating that I still care about my ex and I would be willing to talk to her, but I can't force her to take that initial step and she has to be willing herself to have faith in us.

 

My ex and I had one or two more very brief emails yesterday, and I called her on having something else on her mind but she just denied it. Her friend says my ex is trying to work things out with her most recent bf but says that she doesn't love him and that she's in love with me but is afraid to change anything about her situation.

 

I haven't heard anything from either one of them since yesterday afternoon and there's not much I can do now so I decided to post this ridiculous story on here.

 

[Auntie]

I think you need to e-mail her friend, and maybe even her, and tell her to please not email you, until your X, has made a complete decision! Because it is stringing you along, and that is emotionally bothers you! You don't need to get your hopes up again, buddy! Look out for yourself this time, and don't get involved unless you know for sure what your X wants--tell them NO MORE GAMES! Seriously, you don't deserve this! I have been through all of that, and guess what, I'm just like your X, if you will, I have those trust issues, people always leaving, and all the insecurities the X's for both of you guys- you have done all that you can, its up to her now, and until she makes a sturdy decision for herself, this game will not end! You stay away for now, you guys will know when she is being sincere, I feel, you both know these girls well! You are good people, you also deserve happiness, work on that, and let her decide what her happiness entails! Good luck! Be Strong...Chin up!

[YoungWerther]

tanbark813,

 

Just wanted to say that I wish you the best with everything that's going on right now. My situation has improved, but it's solely due to severing all contact with the ex. I have moved on with my life, I am trying to take my time with meeting new people (but sometimes it's very difficult not to rebound a bit).

 

I found it has been infinitely easier to carry on given that my ex really didn't care too much. If she were attempting to contact me, I think my situation would be very different and I would probably still be embroiled in this thing.

 

So stay strong, stay true to yourself and your ideals, and allow yourself to make decisions for you, not for anyone else.

 

Good luck!

 

~yw