MM's W found out about me

[Impudent Oyster]

The man is an ape, and completely dispicable, from his own actions. He's got sbt on a piece of string and no doubt has his W exactly where he wants her too

 

Frannie, people treat us the way we allow them to treat us. If MM has sbt on a string then that's no one's fault but hers.

 

I too am a little tired of this perpetual victim mentality WRT the OW. No one forced her to sleep with this guy, no one forced her to out him and no one forced her to even confront his wife and then lie when she agreed to it.

 

How about people taking some personal responsibility for a change?

[vanilla chai]

he does want to continue. he has told me that he doesnt want to be without me. i dont want to be without him either, but i have told him that he should work on things with his wife. he doesnt seem to want to.

 

Bottom line is you both had the opportunity to tell the wife the truth and both of you chickened out.

 

If this man truely cared about you and wanted to be with you he would have told his wife.

[frannie]

Wrong, frannie. Sorry, but no, that's not what people are upset about. Although I appreciate that you want to defend sbt when she's down - and I totally agree that there's no need to kick someone who's obviously in a lot of pain - let's not miscast this. It's the lying - going to that table and lying to his wife's face - that is causing more reaction, and rightfully so. That is not something to be proud of, and I hope it will be a wakeup call. I doubt sbt wants to be the kind of person who would do that, even if her MM hopes she remains that person because it suits his own selfish needs.

 

No, you're absolutely right. The angriest posts on the thread are about exactly that... the fact that, faced with the MM and BS in the same room, sbt just did what anyone else with a sense of self-preservation and 'love feelings' for him would have done. I have no idea why anyone would expect her to do anything different. But then it just goes to show that logic and strong emotion don't very often act together.

 

I think that 'a wake-up call' is (in a roundabout way) what sbt was looking for when she told his W (anonymously) what was going on... just an end to the situation whichever way it worked out. Or at least, that would have been my motivation and perhaps I'm assuming there. I too hope that she can now see what kind of man he is... sbt, you've seen and commented on the way he treats his W... even if he left, that's all you'd have to look forward to, and its not a pretty picture.

[frannie]

Frannie

 

She lied to the woman after stirring all this up herself. Now she comes here feeling badly and wanting someone to tell her that its okay. Sorry, but that person can be you as you seem so willing to justify what went down. I am not. What she did was wrong (the lying to the W w/ the MM present).

 

I am not trying to attack SBT or her motives. She just needs to think about them seriously and honestly. I mean that. The argument that you are making is like a bunch of crabs in a bucket. The minute one starts to make it out, the others pull it back in. SBT is in a reachable place. Please let us reach her.

 

You do it your way, and I'll do it my way.

[frannie]

Hold on, first of all, she's not getting any abuse, secondly, sure, if you're going to tell the wife, then tell her and don't backpedal when the sh*t hits the fan.

 

We ALL know why sbt told, and it has nothing to do with concern for MM's wife.

 

I know why you wouldn't tell either frannie, it's because you're afraid of what MM will do (or rather WON'T do) when his wife finds out about you.

 

Affairs typically only survive in secret, once the secret is out, the affair is over. If you're not comfortable being someone's dirty little secret then tell and let the chips fall where they may, the bottomline is, it's the OP who is usually left in the lurch.

 

Sbt now has to decide if she's willing to be kept a secret and to always remain second (or third) priority.

 

Well evidently you don't know why I haven't told MM's W about our affair, if that's your opinion. I'm no more afraid of what MM would or wouldn't do if I told her than sbt was. I don't know if you've ever been an OW, but at certain times in the affair there's a huge temptation to tell the W just to end it and not be able to go back. To get the MM found out, taken back by the W, angry with the OW, going NC and blocking off all possibility of continued involvement. I know you may not believe that, but take it from one who has been there and knows.

 

Now this may seem like twisted morality or more like misplaced loyalty, which it may well be from an objective point of view: but if you're going to comment on affairs and understand or relate to an OW then you would have to at least intellectually grasp this. That for an OW to betray the person she's in a relationship with is still betrayal. Yes, to an outsider it's all twisted up and wrong. But that is the nature of affairs.

 

I would not tell my MM's wife about the affair for one reason: because he wants to be there, with his family, seeing his children whenever he likes. That's HIS choice (not MINE). And he is the one I'm concerned with. Personally, no, I'm not afraid of anything, any kind of fallout from telling her as far as it affects me. Believe that or not, that's the case.

 

Yes, I do think of his W, and whether or not she would want to know about this whole affair. I read with interest BS's points of view on this, and other people's views on whether or not it's 'the OW's place' to tell the W. Some think yes, some think no. And on balance, I think it's not right of me to go behind MM's back and blow apart their situation. It's a betrayal of him, and it's questionable whether it would do anyone any good in the long-run. But that's MY choice.

 

It is the OW's choice what she does in this situation. And yes, it IS for her to do what is right for her, at any point in the process. It may not be objectively right, it may not suit onlookers, it may not be what you think you would do in a given situation. But it's a hard, hard place to be. I don't think anyone can really criticise if you've never been there.

 

Now, it would have been great had sbt been able to reveal the affair to the W's face, with MM looking on... what a great scene! But it would really have gone right downhill from there and made for very sad viewing (jmho), and not just or even for sbt. I vaguely remember reading a post from way, way back on here where the MM, W, and OW got together in the same room and 'truth' was told. That was devastating and awful for the W (if I remember correctly).

 

My view is, as I more or less stated in my first post on this thread and have said since. sbt's MM is very controlling, probably quite an abusive type. sbt never responded (I don't think) about who set up the meeting, and who asked the questions and so on, but I have no doubt that any one of you who had been in this situation (feeling the way she does about him, being someone he's been working on for a while now), would have done very much differently than she did.

 

Now, that doesn't make it right, or laudible, or deserving of anything but a sad response, but it does make it almost inevitable what happened. I simply don't see the point in harping on 'should have's'.

 

sbt is in counselling... that's a very long process in which people find out themselves about themselves. It's completely different from coming to a message board and looking for answers and responses and comment. You can't rush someone changing and growing and understanding by posting a few 'tough love' posts on a forum. But perhaps I'm just responding for me here, and how I would feel if I was on the receiving end of all this comment. sbt is evidently a whole lot more patient than I would be. It's not accidental that I don't actually have a thread of my own.

 

(this post is just about my point of view. It's not meant to suggest that other kinds of posts shouldn't be on the forum. More the merrier and all that)

[frannie]

Frannie, people treat us the way we allow them to treat us. If MM has sbt on a string then that's no one's fault but hers.

 

I too am a little tired of this perpetual victim mentality WRT the OW. No one forced her to sleep with this guy, no one forced her to out him and no one forced her to even confront his wife and then lie when she agreed to it.

 

How about people taking some personal responsibility for a change?

 

That's easy to say, but betrays a lack of understanding about people and how they can get themselves into damaging, soul-destroying positions and find it extremely difficult to see their way out.

 

Yes, it can be frustrating to look at it from the outside, and especially so when it's an OW who is making mistakes left right and centre and thereby helping to perpetuate an affair. But a lot of shouting and finger-pointing isn't going to change anything at all.

[Spinderella]

I think you mentioned that he said he wants things back when things calm down.

 

He may have said that to ensure that you would lie for him.

 

 

Now I will continue reading

[Spinderella]

enigma, you are right i should be angry. i can tell you that i was very hurt. i guess i want him so much that i am willing to take the abuse? women that have been abused (which i have a history of) seem to take the abuse and forgive the abuser because he apologizes and says that he really does love her. now i have finally gotten away from the physical abuse, but i guess i didnt realize how destructive emotional abuse is as well. i am working on getting away from all of this. it is just going to take time.

 

Many women who have been in frightening physically abusive relationships get involved with married or unattainable men. It feels safer because it isnt real, somewhere inside they know they they are not truly in danger of being sucked into the relationship because the relationship will not ever really come to be. They yearn for love, but are scared of relationships. Also staying in this relationship of sorts with mm is stopping you from being fully vulnerable to the new single guy, because you have half of yourself or more still involved with mm.

And now I will continue reading again

[Spinderella]

After reading all of the posts it seems that you are having an enormous battle with yourself and its tearing you apart. A part of you wants to be strong enough to walk away from this, but another part of you doubts that you are, so you try to sabbotage the relationship so that at least it will be over. After this act you panic and beat yourself up, you think that perhaps there was some hope for you and mm and you may have destroyed those chances with this action. You are scared mm will find out it was you. So when mm asks you to meet up with his wife, you agree in a panic so that you dont appear guilty. You lie for him in a further attempt to prove yourself loyal to him and innocent of spilling the beans, but only because you are panicking about losing the relationship now. Perhaps a part of you likes the relationship as it is knowing that in reality you may not be able to handle it, and another part of you hates the relationship as it is because it makes you feel that you are of so little importance to mm and because you feel guilty and ashamed to be involved in it. So much conflict. Forgive me if I am wrong about all of this, these are just my observations. In any case, I may be no more wrong than anyof the other posters.

The thing is, that this relationship causes you to be conflicted and wears you down. Would it be better to be like this or to be alone? Perhaps if you are alone you can work through all the residue from those abusive relationships whereas at the moment ALL of your energy is consumed by him. Perhaps this new sg is so great that he could support you while you do this neccessary work on yourself. On the other hand perhaps the relationship with mm allowed you love at the same time as safety, but, you are just hiding from life in that way. Take some risks, things are not always bad, and men are not always violent.

[Impudent Oyster]

That for an OW to betray the person she's in a relationship with is still betrayal.

 

Yes, I know that, which is why I wonder why SO MANY OP orchestrate a d-day - they are essentially betraying their AP's in the desperate attempt to destroy that persons marriage. It's fairly common.

[Impudent Oyster]

My view is, as I more or less stated in my first post on this thread and have said since. sbt's MM is very controlling, probably quite an abusive type. s

 

Okay Frannie this is where I have a problem with you. Where do you see that MM is controlling? (not that I'm defending him or anything) You say "probably quite an abusive type". What makes you think that?

 

MM didn't force sbt to meet with him and his wife by gunpoint did he? I think he asked and she complied. In fact, she said he "arranged a meeting" Why did she agree? That doesn't sound controlling or abusive to me. Are OW so mindless that they ask how high when MM says jump?

 

Sbt is a grown up, stop using the fact that she has a history of "abusive relationships" as an excuse...don't you think she ought to start acting like one? Do you think it does anyone any good to enable her?

 

A LOT of people have experienced abuse, that doesn't give them a crutch or excuse for bad behavior for the rest of their lives.

[frannie]

Yes, I know that, which is why I wonder why SO MANY OP orchestrate a d-day - they are essentially betraying their AP's in the desperate attempt to destroy that persons marriage. It's fairly common.

 

Hm. I don't know about that. Not from my forum reading it isn't. D-day is just one terrible nightmare for all concerned. Anyone who has been on a forum about infidelity for any length of time would know that.

[frannie]

Okay Frannie this is where I have a problem with you. Where do you see that MM is controlling? (not that I'm defending him or anything) You say "probably quite an abusive type". What makes you think that?

 

MM didn't force sbt to meet with him and his wife by gunpoint did he? I think he asked and she complied. In fact, she said he "arranged a meeting" Why did she agree? That doesn't sound controlling or abusive to me. Are OW so mindless that they ask how high when MM says jump?

 

Sbt is a grown up, stop using the fact that she has a history of "abusive relationships" as an excuse...don't you think she ought to start acting like one? Do you think it does anyone any good to enable her?

 

A LOT of people have experienced abuse, that doesn't give them a crutch or excuse for bad behavior for the rest of their lives.

 

Well, for one thing, just using what you say here as rational response enough "are OW so mindless that they ask how high..."...? No, they don't. So there you go, one clue in your own assessment of the situation. Most people would have said no way not on your nelly, buster. Most men would not have put a woman in that position anyway. And then to barefacedly lie to his W in front of his OW..? If that's not abusive to both I don't know what is.

 

Basically, he's gaslighting his wife and using sbt to lie for him, in a meeting he organised. That's disgraceful behaviour and only a despicable person would have done that.

 

Thirdly, there's what sbt said about how he treated his wife in the meeting. She didn't give any details, but if it was enough to shock and disgust a woman 'in love' then it's probably notable.

 

As far as 'excuses' and 'reasons' go for anyone's behaviour, I'm not confusing the two, and I try never to. Lots of people have behaved badly here, all for their own reasons, both unconscious, conscious, and (in some cases) deliberate. I'm not making excuses for anyone. I'm giving reasons.

 

I've also clearly stated, time and again, that this man is not someone I think that does sbt any good whatever, and that she's seen what he is now, and she needs to gather her strength to repel him when he comes sniffing around next time.

 

That's the most important thing in this thread for me. IF, as a result of that, his W gets to hear more of the truth from sbt, well that would be nice, but to me, that's secondary. sbt is the poster here, and the one asking for input. And at the end of the day, an OW who tells the truth about an affair to a W's face is putting herself in a really bad position, since as we're always being told, she'll be thrown under the bus by the MM, and made a scapegoat by the BS. sbt needs to do what's right for her, and to protect herself. Other people will have to look after themselves.

 

JMHO.

[serial muse]

Hm. I don't know about that. Not from my forum reading it isn't. D-day is just one terrible nightmare for all concerned. Anyone who has been on a forum about infidelity for any length of time would know that.

 

I find this interesting...while I agree that D-Day is a big ole nightmare all round, I just want to point out that for the BS, D-Day is like a drop of water in a pond, rippling out in all directions, forward and backward through time. That's why it's so overwhelming. It engulfs everything, past, present and future.

 

For the WS and OP, I'd imagine, it's more linear - directed primarily at the future because the past is already known to them. So, the fallout basically goes only in a forward direction - and (from the OP's perspective) has the potential to at last bring about much-desired change. Which is where I'd imagine the temptation to shakes things up might come from. Just an idle thought.

[Spinderella]

I find this interesting...while I agree that D-Day is a big ole nightmare all round, I just want to point out that for the BS, D-Day is like a drop of water in a pond, rippling out in all directions, forward and backward through time. That's why it's so overwhelming. It engulfs everything, past, present and future.

 

 

it might also be like this for the ow who believe a reality about the relationship with mm that doesnt really exist. i think most ow dont want to shake it up because somewhere inside where they least want to look they know this and know they will lose out come d-day.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I find this interesting...while I agree that D-Day is a big ole nightmare all round, I just want to point out that for the BS, D-Day is like a drop of water in a pond, rippling out in all directions, forward and backward through time. That's why it's so overwhelming. It engulfs everything, past, present and future.

 

I agree. You have to also remember that while the affair partners have had ample time to settle into their situation, deal with their emotions, plan out their "what ifs", and even strategize what they plan to do or say if/when D-day arrives … The unknowing spouse hasn't been afforded the same courtesy.

 

When the bomb drops, it's much like being walloped upside the head by that proverbial two-by-four. They are caught off guard, unprepared, dealing with the shock and flood of emotions in one swift blow… ALL AT ONCE. They haven't had time to rehearse their reactions, prepare for the impact, or set up a contingency plan to protect themselves in the event their whole world blows apart.

 

Imagine how differently any of us would react to a threat if we saw it coming in plenty of time to protect ourselves … as opposed to having it sneak up behind us and catch us completely off guard when we're at our most vulnerable and least prepared.

 

I can't blame the betrayed spouse at all for displaying the knee-jerk reactions they often do. To expect them to remain calm, emotionally rational, "polite" and even accepting towards their betrayers in the face of this sudden impact is like asking them to be Super Human.

[seibert253]

That fact that he called you if front of his wife to confirm his lies to her, shows just how much he "loves" you. To be blunt, you're nothing but exercise to him. You sound confused, and in a situation you know is wrong, but you're letting your feelings and emotions confuse logic. Do the right thing and you know what that is. You deserve better.

Peace and God Bless,

[sadbuttrue]

i want to thank all of you for your responses. thank you especially frannie. you really seem to understand me. a lot of what you said is so true about OW. i am still working on this, things are not yet resolved like i would like them to be.

 

i do know that i do not need to be in this relationship with MM. he has said that he wants to keep me as well as his nice perfect family. he does realize this is unfair to me and has said so. i have been the one to say that it did not matter. i continued to accept less than what i deserved. i have not fully ended the affair with MM. it is very difficult for me. i see what everyone is saying, i know it and if i was to see such a situation i would say the same thing. i wish i could take the advice that i would give to someone in the situation that i am in. it is just going to take more time i guess.

 

thank you all again, and frannie, i really appreciate your support.

[whichwayisup]

Just keep distancing yourself from him and detach yourself too. He has told you how it is - He wants you in his life without giving up his wife and family, so that leaves you in the exact same spot as before. You the OW and him the MM still at home.

 

I do hope someday soon you figure it out and therapy helps you enough to gain the strength to say goodbye. IT doesn't have to end horribly or malciously...It can be ended by being knowing that you two love eachother but met at the complete wrong time in life. Painful, I'm sure it will be, but in the end, eventually you'll heal from this, move on and find yourself a wonderful man who can offer you so much and BE in your life all the time.

 

You have time on your side, use the best of it, work hard to keep your life busier without him in it. Exclude him more from your life.

 

Good luck.

[sadbuttrue]

thank you wwiu, i am doing this bit by bit, distancing myself. i know it will get easier with time.

[yousaveme]

Here when you want to talk. You are the only person that knows what you can handle. But please remember you have to put yourself first.

Only YOU can make yourself be happy.

 

Best wishes...

 

 

i want to thank all of you for your responses. thank you especially frannie. you really seem to understand me. a lot of what you said is so true about OW. i am still working on this, things are not yet resolved like i would like them to be.

 

i do know that i do not need to be in this relationship with MM. he has said that he wants to keep me as well as his nice perfect family. he does realize this is unfair to me and has said so. i have been the one to say that it did not matter. i continued to accept less than what i deserved. i have not fully ended the affair with MM. it is very difficult for me. i see what everyone is saying, i know it and if i was to see such a situation i would say the same thing. i wish i could take the advice that i would give to someone in the situation that i am in. it is just going to take more time i guess.

 

thank you all again, and frannie, i really appreciate your support.

[ThumbingMyWay]

I find this interesting...while I agree that D-Day is a big ole nightmare all round, I just want to point out that for the BS, D-Day is like a drop of water in a pond, rippling out in all directions, forward and backward through time. That's why it's so overwhelming. It engulfs everything, past, present and future.

 

 

Being a BS, I totally agree with this. Although I would say its more of a big splash, then the ripples in all directions.

 

The things that went thru my mind....wow....everything about our past and things we should have done....and what I was going to do now....and the future....dam. I used to be very future thinking oriented, I had trouble living in the now. But, my wifes affair, officially ended all thoughts for the long term future....well at least to a point. What I mean is I had to live in the now and take each day for what it was. But now, after 2 some years....I find myself thinking of the long term future and the things my wife and I want to accomplish.

 

From the BS side....this whole ordeal has cahnged the way I think and live.

[sadbuttrue]

just wanted to give a somewhat disappointing update. i am still not totally away from MM. i have tried not to see him as much. i guess his W believed us and has decided he must not have done anything wrong. my love for him has not diminished in any way. i do find myself becoming angrier about the whole situation though. i think maybe i need the anger to finally be able to end it. i hate that i am not good enough for him to want to be with just me. no matter what he says, i know i am not important enough to him, or he would be with me. i am trying to keep this in mind.

[serial muse]

just wanted to give a somewhat disappointing update. i am still not totally away from MM. i have tried not to see him as much. i guess his W believed us and has decided he must not have done anything wrong. my love for him has not diminished in any way. i do find myself becoming angrier about the whole situation though. i think maybe i need the anger to finally be able to end it. i hate that i am not good enough for him to want to be with just me. no matter what he says, i know i am not important enough to him, or he would be with me. i am trying to keep this in mind.

 

SBT, it's not that you aren't good enough for him to want to be with just you - that's a terribly destructive way to frame the question!! Thinking of it that way - as if the fundamental problem is with you and not him - is likely just to keep you hanging around hoping for more scraps from him. It just keeps you "in your place." Fight that!!

 

Try to think of it this way instead: he's not much of a man, and certainly not enough of a "good" man to stop hurting two women he claims to "love." He sucks. You are absolutely right to be angry, and I hope you get angrier and angrier; angry enough to burst through the fog and see this man clearly for what he is. (Just please direct your anger where it belongs - at him, not at his wife.)

[puddleofmud]

No one is disappointed in you. YOU are disappointed in you and that is what is most important.

You've a right to be angry but I agree with the last poster: concentrate your anger where it BELONGS.

Stay in touch and express your feelings whatever they may be as best as you are able...

There is no "wrong nor right" about feelings...however, there is a wrong and right about ACTIONS.

You have to decide how you feel about your own actions being involved in this. Not only that, but how your actions depend only upon YOU and not anyone else's influence.

At some point you will feel the entire burden of your own direct deceit, which may be eating at you with full force.

This eating should tell you that you are an inherently GOOD person and not "built" for this....and this is not a bad thing but proof that you are a decent human being.

Try to keep that in mind for yourself, OK?

 

just wanted to give a somewhat disappointing update. i am still not totally away from MM. i have tried not to see him as much. i guess his W believed us and has decided he must not have done anything wrong. my love for him has not diminished in any way. i do find myself becoming angrier about the whole situation though. i think maybe i need the anger to finally be able to end it. i hate that i am not good enough for him to want to be with just me. no matter what he says, i know i am not important enough to him, or he would be with me. i am trying to keep this in mind.