Was I only nasty or was he, also?

[Art_Critic]

2. He is a great dad to my kids, he loves them, and they love him. Maybe I should describe their relationship more closely: he is like a real dad to them. He huggs them, kisses them, buys them everything they want, does their homework with them... This is their chance to have a father. They did see their real father very often, but they knew that he left us and lives with his daughter and his parents. My husband thinks of them as his own sons.

 

I feel sorry for your kids.. you are supposed to be their role model and as their step dad he is also supposed to be the male model..

 

What are your teaching your children ? that it is okay to settle for abusive behavior ?

 

you are teaching your children that his behavior is stellar and acceptable

 

He is a horrible father figure in as much as he treats their mother poorly.

[Art_Critic]

Many marriages go through the "we wanted to divorce" phase, if not all of them.

 

 

I highly doubt that during the honeymoon phase of a marriage many go thru the divorce phase.. unless they end up in divorce..

 

You just married him..

[alphamale]

I highly doubt that during the honeymoon phase of a marriage many go thru the divorce phase.. unless they end up in divorce....

over time all types of relationships (business, romantic, etc.) either end up getting better or getting worse. they generally don't maintain the status quo.

[Touche]

Art, I wouldn't exactly categorize RP's husband's behavior as "abusive." Uncaring, inconsiderate, immature, disloyal...yes. But abusive? I wouldn't go that far.

 

I higly doubt the kids, being as young as they are, are picking up on the subtleties here. It's not like RP is being smacked around (although to her it may feel that way.)

 

And I'm not trying to minimize the gravity of the situation here but I just don't think the kids are seeing the underlying problems here.

 

As for the first year comment: Sometimes the first year is hell. I know that our first year wasn't great. There were times when I wondered whether I had made a mistake. I had a lot of problems with my H's ex-wife. And I often felt he was being disloyal to me (not in any sexual way) when it came to his relationship with her.

 

RP, I think you are on the right track as far as starting the job search process going.

 

What kinds of jobs are you looking into? I have some ideas I'll PM you about. You know I used to manage a temp agency and I was pretty good at matching people to jobs.

 

Oh, wanted to add one more thing. I don't agree with you about stoking the flames with the in-laws. It's really not worth the temporary satisfaction you may feel. Don't do it! I'm not saying ignore their rude remarks but take the high road as much as you can. Don't show them that that they're getting to you. You'll just make everything worse and H will then really feel like you're the problem.

 

Think about it, ok? And keep your head up.

[Touche]

over time all types of relationships (business, romantic, etc.) either end up getting better or getting worse. they generally don't maintain the status quo.

 

I have to agree with this. It's really true, RP. Now, and in the coming few months, is a "make it or break it" time for the two of you. This is either going to turn around and you'll both come to an understanding or it will be all downhill from here.

[Art_Critic]

Art, I wouldn't exactly categorize RP's husband's behavior as "abusive." Uncaring, inconsiderate, immature, disloyal...yes. But abusive? I wouldn't go that far.

 

I think threatening divorce during an argument is abusive..

 

Sorry.. look it up..

 

It is on the abuse wheel for domestic violence.. threats and coercion as well as the financial side of it all.. and no they don't just mean bodily harm threats..

 

Sorry.. he is abusive and is using power and control over her.

[Porn_Guy]

Sorry.. he is abusive and is using power and control over her.

i would agree...RP is just a poor & naive girl from the former eastern-bloc who's been taken advantage of by an older, more experienced man.

 

...so much for the fall of the berlin wall

[a4a]

i would agree...RP is just a poor & naive girl from the former eastern-bloc who's been taken advantage of by an older, more experienced man.

 

...so much for the fall of the berlin wall

 

Perhaps he had an expectation she was willing to tolerate such things because she in exchange would get what she wanted from him? Shut up be a token/trophy wife?

 

Sorry RP things are not going to change......... you are #3 for a reason. (not trying to be harsh but reality).

 

If I were you I would get that job, get your citizenship..... move on.

 

Doesn't sound too "sweet" but reality is reality.

[Art_Critic]

Art, I wouldn't exactly categorize RP's husband's behavior as "abusive." Uncaring, inconsiderate, immature, disloyal...yes. But abusive? I wouldn't go that far.

 

I higly doubt the kids, being as young as they are, are picking up on the subtleties here. It's not like RP is being smacked around (although to her it may feel that way.)

 

And I'm not trying to minimize the gravity of the situation here but I just don't think the kids are seeing the underlying problems here.

 

Something tells me that if your husband pulled half of what RP's husband has pulled that you would see it differently..

 

would you stand by and let your husband threaten you with divorce ?

 

and children pick up on every single LITTLE thing.. they are little sponges for negative energy..

[Porn_Guy]

and children pick up on every single LITTLE thing.. they are little sponges for negative energy..

not only that but kids tend to get quite cranky at times....and they can make quite a mess sometimes.

[Touche]

Something tells me that if your husband pulled half of what RP's husband has pulled that you would see it differently..

 

would you stand by and let your husband threaten you with divorce ?

 

and children pick up on every single LITTLE thing.. they are little sponges for negative energy..

 

Of course I wouldn't stand for it. I already told her that her H reminds me so much of my ex, down to the age difference, high IQ, etc. And I ended up leaving him.

 

I don't think kids pick up on every LITTLE thing though. I mean, granted they probably suspect there's some issue there but if they feel loved and are given affection, I don't think it's going to affect them too deeply. I mean EVERY marriage has some kind of occasional strife or struggle.

 

I guess it IS a form of emotional abuse though. It's a form of blackmail in a way. It's like if she doesn't "toe the line" she's out. I hope the kids don't hear him threaten her with divorce every time they fight. That certainly wouldn't be good for them.

 

This whole thing is very sad. The kids already lost one dad and now may lose another. But better to lose another dad than stay and let this get worse. You can end up a prisoner. I think the longer you wait and don't act, the harder this will become.

 

I feel for you, RP.

 

And the "face time" remark that Johan made, I think maybe you misunderstood (but he can correct me if I'm wrong.) I think some of us were curious as to how long you knew each other in person, before you married him.

[Galaxy]

It sounds like the guy married you just to show off the trophy on his arm. I don't think he takes you seriously at all nor does he respect you if he continually takes the in-laws side and continues to let you have their abuse. Any real man would have cut contact with them by now if that was happening. Plus, your hubby sounds like such a push-over family-wise. He continues to let his brother and his sil trample all over you and they aren't the least bit afraid of him or any actions he might take. It almost seems like your husband puts you in the category of "just another wife". Your husband is making a mockery of your marriage by allowing all that garbage.. his family has absolutely NO respect for you, your husband OR YOUR MARRIAGE!

[RecordProducer]

It is on the abuse wheel for domestic violence.. threats and coercion as well as the financial side of it all.. and no they don't just mean bodily harm threats..

Threats for violence are considered abuse, not any threats. I mean what if I say "OK, you don't eat my soups, I won't make them anymore for you!" - is that a threat, too? There is no financial side of it - he would help me out and support me until I am able to support myself. He is not obligated to live with me for the rest of his life only because I depend on him financially at this moment. Don't make it bigger than it is, please. What it is - is giving up too soon, being stuborn, running away from solving problems, being self-righteous, and using emotional blackmail to make everything his way. If I can change all this and teach him to respect me - good. If not, our marriage will be doomed. But I am not a quitter and will not give up before I have explored all possibilities 100%.

 

I strongly believe that he would move for me if I am independent. In a few years from now, he won't have much choice: between losing us completely just to stay close to his brother and staying with us and maintaining a distant relationship with his brother - the right choice is obvious. If he, however, chooses BIL over the three of us then I will know that I explored everything and nothing worked.

 

 

Perhaps he had an expectation she was willing to tolerate such things because she in exchange would get what she wanted from him?

I think the threats actually come from frustration and lack of self-esteem and confidence in women overall. BIL and SIL who now get along great and he is her puppy dog used to fight terrily and considered divorce numerous times, especially she. SIL told me herself while we were still friends. I really think that my husband has the potential to soften up if he ses that I am not letting him get away with this treatment, if he sees that I am stronger than him. That's what happened to SIL's marriage - she took over, because she is stronger than he is.

 

Sorry RP things are not going to change......... you are #3 for a reason. (not trying to be harsh but reality).

The reason is: he picked the wrong women before, but he also didn't know how to compromise and work on problems.

 

 

If I were you I would get that job, get your citizenship..... move on.

If things don't change, I probably will. I don't want HIM to change; I want the circumstances to change. He is very prone to attaching and listening to me until BIL comes in the picture.

 

 

not only that but kids tend to get quite cranky at times....and they can make quite a mess sometimes.

From the kids' perspective, we're a happy family and they have the best mom and dad in the world. You don't break that in one night. I am not defending him, I was the one who compl;ained first, but I am expressing my more optimistic thoughts today when I calmed down a bit and am able to look further in the future. If I am strong enough, BIL won't be able to do this in 10 years.

 

And the "face time" remark that Johan made, I think maybe you misunderstood (but he can correct me if I'm wrong.) I think some of us were curious as to how long you knew each other in person, before you married him.

We dated for 14 months before we got married and saw each other in person 5 times (about one week each time on average) and talked on the phone (messenger, voice, web cam) for many hours every day and night. However, I don't think that's relevant to our problems. Whether we knew each toher well enough or not doesn't make us any better or worse as people.

 

It sounds like the guy married you just to show off the trophy on his arm. I don't think he takes you seriously at all nor does he respect you if he continually takes the in-laws side and continues to let you have their abuse.

Fortunately, this is not true. He does love me and respect me and didn't marry me for the trophy motive. He is the kind of person who always does the right thing, but always too late. Seriously!

 

Any real man would have cut contact with them by now if that was happening. Plus, your hubby sounds like such a push-over family-wise.

If this is the right thing to do, I assure you, he will do it much later than we think the deadline should be. I am willing to wait though, for the sake of my children. I can leave to show him that I am not afraid opf him and to scare him, but deep inside I don't want another broken family and I believe in the potential of our marriage.

 

 

He continues to let his brother and his sil trample all over you and they aren't the least bit afraid of him or any actions he might take.

Continuing to do so is actually in my favor: the more and longer they do it, the more he sees what jerks they are. As I said, he argues with them every time they say something against me. And PLEASE READ, GUYS I realized something today: his brother started some argument - as usual!!! - and their father interfered and hubby said he didn't say a word and that BIL ran after him to argue... I don't know what the argument was about, but I assume it was about our children picquing on each other. My point is that he is also tired of BIL's crap. And when I asked him what happened, he said nothing, he didn't want to discuss it with ME. So what he thinks/knows inside his mind, he doesn't release in my presence YET.

 

That's why I said I benefit from their sh*t. And it's very good that BIL starts arguments about the kids, an area where hubby is very sensitive. BIL's son is also 8 y.o. like mine. The kids play nicely for 15 minutes then they call each other names for 2 minutes and constantly lie that. I don't pay attention to that, I just tell them to stop and be nice to each other. But BIL and hubby make a big deal out of it.

 

It almost seems like your husband puts you in the category of "just another wife". Your husband is making a mockery of your marriage by allowing all that garbage.. his family has absolutely NO respect for you, your husband OR YOUR MARRIAGE!

He is a hard person (as opposed to soft and meek) when he has to bend over or do something radical. But as I said, he does the right thing eventually and I count on that. My mother told me the first time I told her about the probloems with BIL that the twin brothers will eventually spilt over this. I trust my mom. She is always right.

 

So as you see, I am more optimistic today.

[whichwayisup]

Man, it just sounds like the whole family is dysfunctional and hasn't a clue on how to solve problems, seek therapy and fix things. NO communication, and your H has afew D's under his belt. I know it takes two to tango, but man, that whole family has issues so it's like the X's were against you before you even set foot into the house and into his family.

[Art_Critic]

Threats for violence are considered abuse, not any threats. I mean what if I say "OK, you don't eat my soups, I won't make them anymore for you!" - is that a threat, too? There is no financial side of it - he would help me out and support me until I am able to support myself. He is not obligated to live with me for the rest of his life only because I depend on him financially at this moment. Don't make it bigger than it is.

 

Good luck RP... you are going to need it..

 

Minimizing what he does to you on LS as soon as it hits home isn't going help either..

I haven't made anything out to be worse than it is.. LS is filled with your threads on this guy and your marriage..

 

Get into Marriage Counseling.. there lies your only chance to save this marriage..

[Galaxy]

I realized something today: his brother started some argument - as usual!!!

 

 

Geez, is this an everyday thing?

Yes, over time your husband will probably get sick of them... but he's been putting up with them verbally abusing you for a year now! And hell, how many years did he allow them to abuse his past wives? They don't stop until there is a divorce and your husband is too weak to put them in their place!

How many years does it take? I can't believe he would let them get away with that trash even once!

[whichwayisup]

Get into Marriage Counseling.. there lies your only chance to save this marriage..

 

Yes. And if he won't go with you, go on your own.

[RecordProducer]

Good luck RP... you are going to need it..

Thanks. I agree. But I'll also need some extra strenght and wisdom.

 

Minimizing what he does to you on LS as soon as it hits home isn't going help either..

We didn't resolve anything, we're quite reserved to each other right now. I just decided to be less rigid and angry - and more flexible and wise.

 

Get into Marriage Counseling.. there lies your only chance to save this marriage...

I might seek some professional opinion about which methods (don't) work with his profile, but talking doesn't work with him. I am starting some actions now. I see how nervous he got from my decision to find a job. I mean, wouldn't any normal husband wish his wife good luck and offer help and advice in her job search?

 

Both options (to stay or leave) are evil at this moment. I want to build my near future in a way that will make both options less evil. Becoming independent in terms of finances, friendships, time, and career fulfillment will give me a good position both inside and outside the marriage. I can't run far away from my marriage or jump too high within it when my legs are weak. I have to make them strong first. Then I will decide what to do.

[Galaxy]

He does love me and respect me

 

Really? I don't see it. Actions speak louder than words. He knows how his family is and how they treated his past wives, but still insisted on you living next to them and become subjected to their vile behavior. IMO, he loves himself much more. He values the friendship with his brother much more than your entire marriage. He is also a sissy.. he won't even work up any bit of strength ( no matter how uncomfortable that may be) to defend his wife? He says that they are entitled to their opinion? Easy way out. First off, they have a lot of gall to shove their negative "opinions", which you are not interested in, right in both of your faces. I like how he describes their constant attacks as opinions.

[RecordProducer]

Really? I don't see it. Actions speak louder than words.

Maybe I wasn't descriptive enough of the whole situation, but this is how things look like chronologically: he is a wonderful husbandand I am a wonderful wife... they attack me (usually behind my back) and he defends me, but doesn't tell me what's going on... he wants me to be nice to them and not notice that they are jerks, cuz, of course, he loves them... but I have pride and a big mouth so I complain... and here he tries to balance things by pretending that nothing is so bad and I am paranoid (if I am paranoid, why does he fight with them all the time?)... then we get into deep fights because of them... and he thinks we fight too much.. frankly, I have threatened with divorce, too... and then he turns into a bad husband and I turn into a bad wife...

 

He knows how his family is and how they treated his past wives, but still insisted on you living next to them and become subjected to their vile behavior.

Well BIL treated his 2nd wife badly, but the "file for that case" somehow got lost. His ex is still in good terms with SIL, because she is dumb and can't see that everything came from her, not from BIL only. Regarding his first wife, he divorced her like 15 years ago and I don't know how she got along with BIL. But BIL wasn't married to SIL at the time so things might have been different.

 

He sees his family as the best, because they are good to him. But as time goes by, he might realize that their sh*t can't pass through with me anymore.

 

IMO, he loves himself much more.

Isn't that normal?

 

He values the friendship with his brother much more than your entire marriage.

I agree. For now. But that may chnage. And if it doesn't, I will know what to do. As I said, if I move to another state in a couple years, he will only have two options: to join me or divorce me. In the meanwhuile I will pursue my own career and try to make things in the marriage work. I got used to the in-laws' hatred and it doesn't bother me anymore. Now I am not afraid to bite their heads off when they attack me so I feel much better and more powerful. I decided to build my marriage from the inside and punch in the nose all negative influence from the outside. I can live with my husband's "That was nasty of you" comments if I have the satisfaction of pissing THEM off. Also, as somebody here told me, I am obviously too idle and have too much time to think about my in-laws.

 

He is also a sissy.. he won't even work up any bit of strength ( no matter how uncomfortable that may be) to defend his wife?

No. That's incorrect. He ALWAYS defends me and takes my side. He never attacks me. Only when I tell him that they are evil, he says that I am paranoid and we should all try to be nice to each other. But he admits that I did nothing wrong and that they are picquing on me. But he doesn't want to give things the right name (for now), because if he does - he has to DITCH them once forever. So he is playing an Englishman, like everything will be fine and things are not so bad. He told me that some day we'll all be friends. He has a hard time accepting that his own flesh and blood, his twin can be so mean and persistently try to ruin his happiness. He told BIL and SIL "You just want my wife out of my life!" (the kids told me and he didn't deny).

 

He says that they are entitled to their opinion? Easy way out. First off, they have a lot of gall to shove their negative "opinions", which you are not interested in, right in both of your faces. I like how he describes their constant attacks as opinions.

I totally agree with you. But I hope that justice will win. Don't forget that he didn't go to his brother's party, because I influenced him.

[Galaxy]

He ALWAYS defends me and takes my side.

Ok and in another post you say:

 

Then how can he say that we don't get along cuz we're both at fault? He of all people in the world is not on my side and everyone else is.

I understand that he defends his twin brother, but why the sister-in-law, for heaven's sake?

 

 

Really.. he needs to lay down the law with his family. He seems to feel ok to let his family walk all over his marriage.

You really sound like you are in denial too. It's just one thing after another with this dud.

[RecordProducer]

He ALWAYS defends me and takes my side.

 

Ok and in another post you say:

 

Then how can he say that we don't get along cuz we're both at fault? He of all people in the world is not on my side and everyone else is.

I understand that he defends his twin brother, but why the sister-in-law, for heaven's sake?

 

 

Really.. he needs to lay down the law with his family. He seems to feel ok to let his family walk all over his marriage.

You really sound like you are in denial too. It's just one thing after another with this dud.

No, I am not in denial. He DOES defend me when they attack me. I just can't stand it that after knowing what he knows about them, he tells me that I am paranoid and we should all get along - as if I created the sh*t, not them. I told him many times to tell me that he is on my side, that I am OK, and they are wrong, and I will continue to smile at them, but knowing that my husband is on my side. At the beginning I didn't even know that he was defending me, he didn't tell me they talked sh*t about me or anything. I found out from SIL, BIL, from the kids and from conversations I heard by accident.

 

I actually understand that he is ashamed of his own family doing sh*t like that. If my mom would do such a thing to him, I would defend her (hell, he wouldn't be allowed to say one bad word about my mother!) and I wouldn't want to cut ties with my mom because of him. So I understand his position, but I am still mad at him, because he thinks they have a right to state their "opinion." In my opinion, he should cut them off every time they say something against me and not talk to them for 2 weeks. Next time they say something, he should make it 4 weeks. The third time, they would learn the lesson. I mean, they've done it so many times, by now it'd be not talk to them for 52 weeks. They wouldn't dare open their mouth more than 3-4 times. He can LEAVE every time they start something and threaten that he will stop all communication with them. But after every sh*t his brother causes, they argue and then he continues the lovey-dovey relationship with him. And we stay mad at each other permanently.

 

It's his whole attitude that they have a right to interfere. He can't see that any influence from aside should bounce back immediately. He is not supposed to defend me, he is supposed to put a tag on his forehead: you say a word against my wife - you're out of my life forever. Only then they will stop.

 

I don't see any other option but to make him choose between me and them. And the day will come when I'm able to do that.

 

When I say he is not on my side, I mean he should make it clear to others and make me feel like I am the most important thing in his life. Not that I am just one member of his big family. He should make it clear to them and me that I did nothing wrong (which he admits) and that I deserve their respect by default. Not like he told me "You should EARN their respect." If he thinks I didn't deserve their respect just by being his wife and I didn't earn it by being nice to them, he is not fully on my side.

 

But since they are so persistent in their attempts to throw me out of the picture, they will have to get out of it themselves. He told me that the right thing to reply to BIL was: "Did you call to say anything constructive or did you just call to harass me?" I agreed that this was an excellent answer. It points out that he was harassing me, just like it cuts him off and shows him that his questions/opinions are not solicited by anyone. Next time I will know what to say. In the meanwhile, I'll let him deal with their crap and I'll just continue to smile.

 

My long-term goal is to show him that I am nice and they are bad so that he chooses me, not them. After all, I am in a difficult position, but he is the one who is in an unbearable position, because they are making him get rid of one of us. Naturally, HE is in denial of that. He wants to believe that this can somehow be resolved in a nice way. I hope that some day he will wake up and realize that he will have to lose either them or me. But in order to achieve my big goal, I have to be spotless. And I made a mistake by not being such a good wife, because I started arguments with him, I drank, I was angry and desperate. I understand myself, too, this whole situation is not easy on me, but I should have taken charge of my feelings and my anger in a much better way. He is responsible for making me mad, but I am responsible for not handling my madness in a more mature way.

[JackJack]

I'm coming in this thread late, so forgive me if its already been said. Do you think maybe he holds some resentment towards you for making him see something he already knew but didn't want to deal with? That would be, he already knew his family were trouble starters and liked to talk about others etc..... By you talking to him about them, and what it is they are doing/saying, its just a confirmation of what he already knows and doesn't want to deal with because he feels stuck between a rock and hard place. That is his problem though, because its good you comminucate with him on how it makes you feel. I think if he is left up to choosing, and even if he chooses you, he will harbor resentment for that too. I dunno RP, not sure what to tell you. Its kind of like, damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

[Porn_Guy]

i stand 100% behind my statements...i've seen this situation a few times in the past.

[RecordProducer]

I'm coming in this thread late, so forgive me if its already been said. Do you think maybe he holds some resentment towards you for making him see something he already knew but didn't want to deal with? That would be, he already knew his family were trouble starters and liked to talk about others etc..... By you talking to him about them, and what it is they are doing/saying, its just a confirmation of what he already knows and doesn't want to deal with because he feels stuck between a rock and hard place. That is his problem though, because its good you comminucate with him on how it makes you feel. I think if he is left up to choosing, and even if he chooses you, he will harbor resentment for that too. I dunno RP, not sure what to tell you. Its kind of like, damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

You're probably right that he knew it before. See, I didn't think of this. He must have known what kind of people they are. It can't be a surprise after knowing them for 50 years. And you're right about damned if I do, damned if I don't. I don't think he would hold resentment towards me, because he is not the kin do fperson that will bend over then blame others. He doesn't bend, if he does something it's his decision 100%, even if he was directed by others.