Packing, what now?

[redfathom]

Hi Moongirl,

 

I just read your post about your husband and I am sooooo sorry, what an *********. I am so glad you found the strenth to get out. I know you are moving past this but I want you to know that you are a great, smart and caring person. You are very good to people on this board and I am sure you are just as nurturing in person and I hope you find someone who appreicates that.

 

I hope I can get out, I want to but then i talk to him and I get sucked back in. I am not going to see him this weekend no matter how guilty and sad he makes me. I have already made plans with other people so I will stick to that.

 

The more I read about EA the more I can relate to it and the more angry I get. I hope I can really do what is best for me and stop putting him first. I really hope I can find a way to make him not make me feel guilty. Of course one way to do that is to not talk to him. If I don't talk to him he can't make me feel bad.

[MoonGirl]

Thanks RF. I know I didn't deserve to be abused. I am just happy I made it out of my marriage relatively sane. My husband is still working on trying to get me back, but I am just too far gone emotionally at this point to even consider that option.

 

It takes a lot of contemplation, resolution, and strength to leave. It took me a LONG time to get to that point.

 

I think the biggest impact a friend of mine had on me was asking me, "if your daughter were married to a man like your husband, what advice would you give her?"

 

You're right that it is very difficult to get past the guilty feelings about leaving. You will likely never be able to make your husband let you go in a friendly way, which seems to be your goal. He simply doesn't think like you do. You have to stop allowing him to guilt trip you, and you have let go of the guilt for yourself.

 

I'm glad you're planning on having the weekend to yourself (and friends).

[redfathom]

Okay, I am sure everyone is thinking, wow again!

 

So I did not talk to my H at all yesterday until he texted me at 1:30. He asked:

if I was awake and

I said yes,

he asked if he woke me

and I said yes,

then he said that he was sorry for bothering me and it was nothing.

So I said, okay goodnight,

then he said more like goodbye

And I said we will talk later

He said, that is what you said yesterday,

I said yes I did so what do you have to say?

He said I already it said it goodbye

so I said, If that is what you want then I will respect that and I am sorry it came to this.

He said, I am coming over to give you something

 

 

This freaked me out, I sent a text what is it, but he did not reply, then he was at my dads house (it was 230) in the morning. I called him while he was outsude and asked him why he was not at work and what did he have to give me he, he said he did not feel like going in and if I wanted to find out I shouls come out and see. I was shaking but I opened the door and he gave me his wedding ring, then for about 10 seconds he yelled at me for breaking his heart (I am not sure what he said I was too scared) then he said, "the barrell of a gun does not feel good against your heard" he got in the car and spead off.

 

I started to cry and called his brother and told him what happened and told him to call me when he got home so I knew everything was okay, at 430 he called and said that my H was calmed down and everything was okay.

 

Then get a text from my H, "brothers name and I had a talk, I miss you and I love you"

 

So I sent a text back, take care of yourself, I love you too.

 

Then he called me because he wanted to say he was sorry. He said he was having a hard time letting go and did not want to loose me that he wants to know when I am coming home. I told him I don't know right now is not good for either of us. I told him all we do is hurt each other and he said he was upset because he will try to tell me how he is feeling (when I say something mean) and I attack him. I said I was sorry if you felt attacked but talking to him made me feel guilty and I did not want to feel that way. He kept saying that he does not want to get used to me being gone and wants me to come home so we can work on things. He said, you told me we would talk later and you did not call me the whole day yesterday and I was like well the last time I saw you you did not want to talk then you send a mean e-mail to get my cat. I told him I was sorry I broke his heart and he said the whole when we got married it was til death do us part and neither of us are dead. I told him that right now I can't come home but I would see him on Monday at our MC appt. So then he said, so you are not coming hom this weekend and I said No, I need this time to myself, why don't you go do something fun with your brothers. Then he pouted and we got off the phone.

 

He just keeps saying that he can't let go and that I seemed to have let go just fine. I told him I was tired of him punishing me and I brought up the cat things and he said he was just being mean about that. And I said, well I am not being mean on purpose when I say mean things to you and I just tell you how it is. He said that he does not feel like he is punishing me and I said, when you tell me you are going to get divorce papers and this is goodbye then give me back the ring, then what am I supposed to think. I know you are tyring to hurt me.

 

So I know, this is a very unhealthy situation, last night scared me. I hope MC will help.

[Gunny376]

FORGET THIS GUY!

 

Just that plain and simple. He's got problems! He's got issues ~ and that's what they are HIS problems and his issues! Not yours!

 

He's sick ~ and he's making you sick. Its just like on the show Intervention, you're sick, you've got issues, you need professional help to get well ~ go get it! You're not going to make me sick because of your sickness! I will no longer be a part of it, I will no longer be an enabler of it, I will no longer be a validator of it ~ I'm through, I'm done! There's no chance of our getting back together, being together until you've gotten the long term help that you need.

 

And, until he's got help with his problems, and his issues, strictly NC, no phone calls, no e-mails, no texts, zilch, nadda, nothing!

 

Meanwhile you work on getting your head and life back together from being with this guy!

 

Don't you see how this crazy guy is making you crazy, and is messing up your thinking? Life's to freaking short!

[redfathom]

I do see that. I just really want to move past this. I want him to get help so he can be a better person. You know I was thinking about it and he told me a while back when I said I was going to move out, he said, if you do then you can never come back. I will RESEPCT YOUR wishes and not follow after you.

 

I wish he was doing that now. I really hope he gets help. I will go to the MC appt. on Monday, maybe he will go, I will take my own car and not go with him any where afterwards.

 

It is very hard to see someone you love become this way. It is really hard too when you feel a little bit of responsibility and maybe that's my sickness talking. I know this will be a long road for both of us to recover. I am finding out that as much as I want to help him I can't. There is nothing I can I am only getting damaged by trying.

 

Today I am going to my ice skating lessons, art class getting my hair cut and then I am hitting the book store for some more self help books. Then tomorrow I am going to the zoo with my friend, I am looking forward to it.

 

I hope there is no more drama this weekend because I don't need it.

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

You are right - YOU CAN'T HELP HIM. The only person who can help him is himself. His behavior is really crazy right now, and I don't blame you for being scared.

 

I'm glad you're doing some things for yourself this weekend.

[Gunny376]

Watch the show "Intervention" on A&E,

 

It deals with interventing into people with addicitions, ~ drugs, alcohol, shopping, gambling, etc.

 

But, what I want you to notice is not so much the person with the problem, but how that person with the problem and issues affects the people around them that love them and care about them ~ and how the person's addicition, "sickness" if you will makes them sick ~ and how in order for them to get well ~ they can no longer be a part of the other person's life, and "man-up" and tells the person "Either get the professional help you need, get on the program and stay on the program ~ or I'm cutting you out of my life forever!"

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.aetv.com/intervention/

[Ladyjane14]

So I did not talk to my H at all yesterday until he texted me at 1:30. He asked:

if I was awake and

I said yes,

he asked if he woke me

and I said yes,

then he said that he was sorry for bothering me and it was nothing.

So I said, okay goodnight,

then he said more like goodbye

And I said we will talk later

He said, that is what you said yesterday,

I said yes I did so what do you have to say?

He said I already it said it goodbye

so I said, If that is what you want then I will respect that and I am sorry it came to this.

He said, I am coming over to give you something

 

 

Where are your boundaries, Red???

 

This guy just dictated YOUR actions at 2:30 in the morning! To begin with, if he's going to contact you at 1:30, he should have had a SUPERLATIVE reason for that... and not just another one of his manipulative hissy-fits.

 

And when he said he was "coming over", the correct response would have been... "not unless you need want a police escort to find your way back off the property".

 

Damn girl... set some limits already.

You need to declare a Drama-Free Zone around yourself.

 

Have you ever seen The Dog Whisperer TV show? It's hosted by a dog behavioral specialist named Cesar Millan. And what he does with dogs who've become obsessive or fixated is to stop them at the FIRST level of the unwanted behavior. IOW, the dog starts with a fixed glare on the object of his obsession and Cesar gives him a correction BEFORE the situation can escalate.

 

At 1:30 when you first got the first text.... THAT was the time you should have given the correction. Negative attention from your estranged husband is UNWANTED by YOU at 1:30 in the morning. It disrespects your "drama-free zone".

 

 

...then he said, "the barrell of a gun does not feel good against your heard" he got in the car and spead off.

 

THIS is where that escalation led to. MORE DRAMA.

Did you call the police? Did you use any of the suicide prevention techniques you've learned? 'Cause it sounds to me like you gave him what he was looking for.... you, crying and worried and paying attention to him.

 

I told him that right now I can't come home but I would see him on Monday at our MC appt.

 

Are you going to be able to be HONEST with your MC when you go to that appointment? Are you going to feel like you can say all the things you need to say with your husband sitting right there arguing back?

 

MC isn't valuable unless the therapist has the correct information. As easily bullied and intimidated as you were last night, I'm uncertain as to whether you can hold your own and say what you need to say with him there. I have to wonder if IC wouldn't be better for you.

At the minimum though, you should talk to your counselor about setting up an appointment for just yourself so you can discuss that.

[MoonGirl]

I agree with LadyJane. IC helped me a lot because I was able to talk freely and honestly about EXACTLY what was going on and how I felt. For me, this helped ease my pain and the therapist validated what I already knew - my husband was abusive and toxic to me. It sounds like IC would be really helpful for your husband too. Anyone who is commenting on using a weapon against you or themselves seriously needs some help.

[redfathom]

Hi All. I am seeing an IC, I have seen her about five times and she does validate a lot of what I say. She has me read Codependancy No More and I start a Codependancy class on Tueasday. I also picked up two books on Emotional Abuse (the newest today, called Emotional Blackmail).

 

I did talk to my H today, he sent another "I am going to hurt myself text". I told him I will not be coming back because I am afraid of him and he told me he would never hurt me. He said we are not in love any more and that he felt like I wanted to be single and I told him I did. I said that was not my intention when I moved out, I needed space to deal with some issues and now their are more issued and I can't deal with them. I told him I am angry that he makes me feel guilty and like I am responsible for his safety that I can not help him and he needs to get help. He said me moving back would help and I again said I would not be moving back because I was afraid of him. He said I had complete control over the relationship and he feels like he is being dangled and that he is not my boyfriend he is my husband and that he has spent the last 9 years with me and that means something. He said he thought I was going through a mid life crisis and if I need to be single then I need to let him go so he can get over me.

 

 

I hate feeling so helpless and I know it is so easy to say I am not helpless I have choices but right now I do not feel like I do, but I feel like I am getting control of them. I got a journal today also at the book store, it is so important for me to write down our interations and my feelings. Sometimes I find it so hard to remember what was said and to remember what is reality and what is the reality he tells me to believe. I am not sure if that makes sense. I try to remember word for word what was said so I can play it back in my mind and try to find out what happened. I also want an accurate reminder of our interations so later on I can remember what was said and how it made me feel and how I felt in general.

 

I really appreicate the support I get here, so far I have been using this as website a blog to help me remember what has happened plus I really appreicate the objective advise and opinions I get here.

 

P.S. I did call 800-Suicide today to see what help they could offer. They said I should get him in to see a counselor and that other then that there is nothing I can do.

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

I'm glad you got some new books and a journal. And I'm glad you go to IC.

 

I understand what you're saying about reality vs. the reality your husband tells you exists. Just a few days ago my husband asked for a list of things I needed. I sent it to him, and he said, "I think you should come home." I told him I wouldn't even consider it. Then he said, "I know what's best for you." Months ago, I really believed he knew what was best for me. We have been friends since I was 17 (but started dating and got married when I was older), and he has basically always controlled me to some extent. So, I really do understand how hard it is to break free from the warped reality of living with a crazymaker, especially one you've known for so long and have so many memories with.

 

But it can be done! And you are still so young. I'll bet once you're really free from your husband, you'll enjoy your life like you never have before!

[redfathom]

It is the oddest thing, I really have a hard time seperating what I said to how he twisted what I said. I start to believe the way he says it as being the way I said it, then I apologize for what HE said I said.

 

I am reading a book now and taking notes, called, Why does he do that? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men. It is so helpful to read because it lets me step back and say, yes, I know what that feels like and yes, that has happened to be and it reinforces my decision.

 

I always know what I want (or so it seems) until I talk to my H and then what HE wants becomes the issue and I start to beleive that he knows best, like you did. I mean how can someone who loves you not want what is best for you.

 

I am expecting some crazy text message to be sent to me and I feel like i have to be on guard. I mean I hear a car drive by that sounds like his and I get afraid. The weird things is besides being only a little afraid of him physically I am VERY afraid of arguring with him and being torn down. I am afraid of what he will say to me and how he will make me feel because I start to believe it. Then I feel guilty and I think, wow...you are right, this is my fault and I need to make it up to you so I think I will come home so we can work on things.

 

When it is just me I AM in control, but as soon as he contacts me that power shifts, I know it and I recognize yet I feel helpless against it.

[redfathom]

So I called my H about two hours ago and he told me that he was about to leave to go to the hospital to see the onsite psychologist. His Aunt is a Psychologist and he had called her to tell her how he was feelings and about his thoughts. She told him he needed to go into a local hospital and see the psychologist and turn in all of his guns to them. He told me he was and that he was going to take next week off from work.

 

I am very releived about this! I am so glad he is getting professional help. He said he was very sorry for giving me the wedding ring back and that he is very lost. He said he is worried about being admitted because of his career, he said this would mean we would lose a large income, possibly our house and cars and I told him that was okay that is safety was the most important thing right now.

 

I tried to explain to him about how confused I was and about how I am having trouble telling the difference between thoughts and reality. He said he understood.

 

I asked if I could call his aunt and he said that was okay, so I did.

 

She was very helpful. She said that my H has been needing to do this for a long time that anyone who had a childhood like his would need professional counsoling and for a long time. She said in his reality everything is black and white, which explains a lot. Like how only one of use can have a validated feeling, how I have to either be with him or not be with him, that being seperated is the same as not being with him. she said from watching us interact that she has always knowen that he is very controlling of me. She said he would have a hard time with that because at this point he can't accept responsiblity, that he has blocked him self off emotionally and that feeling would cause him to feel like he lost control. I mean there are a lot of feeling he needs to come to terms with.

 

She said his mom was like this, that nothing was her fault. I am not sure how he would take hearing that but he does need to know that he is different then his mom because he is getting real help. I mean she got on anit-depressents but the therpist never made her accept things so she could heal and move on from them. In fact her therapist validated her feelings which was very damaging to the kids. I know what she was like, my dad dated her for six years and I lived with her for two and a half.

 

He is very worried about his career and I was thinking about it and his aunt kind of said the same thing, that in there line of work they are used to people having emotional break downs. It makes so much sense about why he is so emotionally cut off, he has to be at work and I am sure it is hard to turn that off when you get home. I want to tell him that if this career does not work out, then I don't care what he does, he can sell cars (he loves cars) and would enjoy it and if that makes him happy then that is all that matters.

 

I spoke to his brother a little bit ago, he is at the hospital with him and he seemed angry with me. He was very short and uncaring that I am upset, which is okay because he has more important things to deal with.

 

I hope we can both start healing. His aunt said she does not think he has any idea how he treats me in fact she said that he probrably thinks he is taking care of me. I mean he treats me like a child, like he is the parent and is teaching me, I guess I can't expect much else when he is predisposed to react that way and I was so young when we got together, I mean I was a kid at the time.

 

I told her I still do not at this point want to go back and she said she understood and to know that none of this is my fault. She is glad that I am in therapy and that I seem to be taking the right steps toward healing. She said as I am healing I will start to get angry once I am able to step back and see the way I have been treated all these years.

 

The hard part, and I have mixed feelings about this, is I feel like I am punishing my H by leaving when he did not intentionally do anything wrong. I mean in his eyes if he truly feels like he thinks he is taking care of me by being controlling then in his eyes he did nothing wrong. Yet, I know that I should not have been treated that way. I guess what I want to say is I hope he can get help and I hope he knows that I do not blame him for this (if that was truly the case). I mean when I tell him how I feel he is sincerely shocked that he could make me feel that way. When I told him he was controlling he said he was sorry that I felt that way that he had no idea that I thought that. This was the same when I told him I was scared. He really did not understand how his actions scared me, because they were not directed at me, none the less, they do scare me.

 

His aunt was suprised about his coming by and said she understands why I would be scared and that if he know I am home alone during the week that maybe I should stay with a friend. I may do that.

 

Well, I am going to try to get to sleep early since I know I will not be sleeping well tonight.

[MoonGirl]

 

When it is just me I AM in control, but as soon as he contacts me that power shifts, I know it and I recognize yet I feel helpless against it.

 

 

This is exactly why I disagree with the advice in the "Looser" article about how to distance yourself from the Looser because simply being near the Looser can make you think differently. I understand that with divorce, it is not at all possible to attain complete no contact, but something very close to it can be attained. And after the divorce, complete NC can be attained if there are no kids involved. Without NC I think it is too easy to get sucked back in over and over again.

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

My husband is the same. I told him over and over again that he was abusive, but he just didn't understand. To him, it was normal and acceptable to tell me what to do all the time, punish me for doing and saying the "wrong" things, insult me, insult my friends and family, and eventually hit me.

 

It doesn't matter that he doesn't understand. The result is the same: he treats you poorly and makes you miserable. And, really, I think they do understand to some extent. Everyone knows it's not normal to threaten suicide over and over again. Everyone knows it's not normal to become violent during a discussion that isn't going your way.

 

I'm glad he's getting some help.

[PWSX3]

I want to share my thoughts with you because I was just like your H & hopefully it will share some light on how he is thinking to help you kind of understand the other side.

I don't want to make you feel worse & don't feel sorry because you didn't understand his side either. In my case it had a lot to do with lack of communication and lack of education.

I hope we can both start healing. His aunt said she does not think he has any idea how he treats me in fact she said that he probrably thinks he is taking care of me. I mean he treats me like a child, like he is the parent and is teaching me, I guess I can't expect much else when he is predisposed to react that way and I was so young when we got together, I mean I was a kid at the time.

Me & my W got married very young, we both moved from living with our parents to living together as a married couple & as Gunny has said many of times; we didn't know squat about being married we were "JUST IN LOVE"!. She was very shy & even though I was also shy I was a little more outgoing. I grew up in a family that when something was broke you fixed it, she grew up in a family if something was broke you had to call someone to fix it & I really think this is what started our problems that we are having now. When something would break I fixed it, when something didn't go right I tried to fix it so slowly I started taking control of what was going on in our relationship. Since the W was the quite one she didn't speak up, she just went along with what I said to make me happy. When she grew up at school she didn't have many friends so she was just glad to do what I wanted to make me happy, which now we see wasn't a good thing. Like your H was doing to you, I was also doing to my W. I was treating her more like a child then my spouse.

Now she wants her independance, whats to make her own choices but I didn't let her because "I" felt she wouldn't make the correct one because I have been doing most of them for her all her life.

What I didn't realize is "I" didn't give her the chance to make her own decision to learn from her mistakes. I felt I was taking care of her like a husband should be, I didn't see it as controlling at all.

I told her I still do not at this point want to go back and she said she understood and to know that none of this is my fault. She is glad that I am in therapy and that I seem to be taking the right steps toward healing. She said as I am healing I will start to get angry once I am able to step back and see the way I have been treated all these years.

 

The hard part, and I have mixed feelings about this, is I feel like I am punishing my H by leaving when he did not intentionally do anything wrong. I mean in his eyes if he truly feels like he thinks he is taking care of me by being controlling then in his eyes he did nothing wrong. Yet, I know that I should not have been treated that way. I guess what I want to say is I hope he can get help and I hope he knows that I do not blame him for this (if that was truly the case). I mean when I tell him how I feel he is sincerely shocked that he could make me feel that way. When I told him he was controlling he said he was sorry that I felt that way that he had no idea that I thought that. This was the same when I told him I was scared. He really did not understand how his actions scared me, because they were not directed at me, none the less, they do scare me.

I really believe your H thought he is/was doing the best thing for you because I felt I was doing the best I could do for my wife. I was looking out for her, I was making the choices for her so she wouldn't make the wrong ones. Funny thing about that is I never thought that maybe I would make the wrong decision myself because I felt what I told her was the right thing to do. Kind of like my way is always the right one. In my post I used an example of driving home from the store. She asked me which way she should go?

Now that I look back at it there is no right way or wrong way. There are all kinds of ways to get home but the important thing is you get home. I always thought the way I went home was the correct way when it was just my way.....

After she moved out I was so lucky to find LS & the first few posts were pretty tuff on me. I was hit right between the eyes with a 2X4 & it woke me up or should I say it shocked me that people would talk to me like that but that is what I needed, I read it, then I read it again and again and finally it started to sink in that my controlling wasn't right, that what "I" thought I was doing was not right at all. I'm pretty hard headed so it took many posts from people to finally get threw to me but it started to.

I started to read books & learn and then I started to realize that how I was treating my W was wrong and then I started to cry & I cried a lot but not because she moved out but because of how bad I treated her all these years. I started to get angry with myself on how bad of a person I was but the more books I read and the more support I got from people her on LS the better I felt.

Then Gunny said something to me that has stuck with me & will stick with me to the day I die. He said; when I get up in the morning to tell myself that I don't ever want to be that old person, that I won't ever be that old person and from that day I have worked to be a better person. I am the only person I can change or have control over & that has been something I will have to work on very hard every day.

 

I can't say I blame myself for how I acted because to me I thought I was doing good, my job as a husband and I have a feeling your H feels the same way, teaching & taking care of the W so I excepted that I can't blame myself for that, but what I have learned is if I do it again or go back to that old person then I am to blame because "I" do know better now. You can't blame someone for something they don't know but you can be blamed for it if you didn't learn your listen.

 

Both you & your H are learning right now. You are both learning that you see things differently then you really thought they were. You see it as controlling, he sees it as watching out for his DW. I feel a lot of this is lack of communication & lack of learning. Gunny has said it many times how we have to go to school for this or that, but how many classes do they teach about marriage or relationships??

 

If your H is honest with himself & he looks at the help as a possitive thing I really do believe he will come out a better person. He will see things so much different or at least I do. Even my outlook on life has changed, how I see other people. I really do believe that if he looks at it as I have done in a positive way you will see a different man come out at the end of that tunnel.

 

I think ilmw can agree with some of what I am saying because he has grown & learned so much about himself as well as many others here on the board. The biggest thing I feel is you have to want to do it for yourself and that's the bottom line. If your H opens his eyes to seeing things differently then what we have done in the past that will be a great benifit for the both of you.

[aaaaaiiiiieeeee]

RF,

 

My husband is the same. I told him over and over again that he was abusive, but he just didn't understand. To him, it was normal and acceptable to tell me what to do all the time, punish me for doing and saying the "wrong" things, insult me, insult my friends and family, and eventually hit me.

 

It doesn't matter that he doesn't understand. The result is the same: he treats you poorly and makes you miserable. And, really, I think they do understand to some extent. Everyone knows it's not normal to threaten suicide over and over again. Everyone knows it's not normal to become violent during a discussion that isn't going your way.

 

I'm glad he's getting some help.

 

 

The whole time I was made to feel as though I were the controlling one. We would argue and she would tell me not to raise my voice. It got to the point where I just above a whisper when I brought something up with her and I was still raising my voice. She threatened suicide over and over and hit me, too. She convinced me that I am some kind of monster.

 

The best thing is just to get away from these people. NC! I kept making the mistake of responding to her emails, and telling her not to contact me. Of course she would contact me immediately.

[PWSX3]

RF,

 

I think they do understand to some extent. Everyone knows it's not normal to threaten suicide over and over again. Everyone knows it's not normal to become violent during a discussion that isn't going your way.

 

I'm glad he's getting some help.

I don't know if it's they understand but its there way of getting what they want. After you are so used to always getting your way & people do things your way and then they start doing or wanting to do it differently you become defensive without knowing it and in order to get back that control you do things to belittle the other person.

 

I feel a lot of it is not being confedent in yourself even though you think you are. You have to feel like you are better then the other person to make yourself feel better about yourself.

[redfathom]

Moongilr, I think he did finally realize that feeling and saying he was suicidal was not right so he called his aunt and went to get help. I talked to his brother yesterday and they said that he was not admitted and the guns are still in the house (his brother is supposed to get them out today). At this point I am still confused about what I need to do. I know I can't go back because this is just the begining of a very long road.

 

I guess I feel like we both have a very long journey ahead and if we get back together we will be taking a detour and never reach our desitnation or our potentional.

 

I do want to very much be with him to help him and comfort him, but I know that would not be the right things to do.

 

PWSX3,

 

Thank you for the post! I agree with you in that my H thinks he is doing what is best. He is very emotional right now because he has lost me (in his eyes for good) he is having to come to terms that he did not treat me well (although at the begining of his journey I do not think he grasps what he did that was wrong). That does make him sad though.

 

We both have to face reality and for a long time and even now we did/do not know what that is. I mean if I never left his reality would be that he is taking care of me when he is actually controlling and therefore avbusive. My reality is that I trust his judgments more then my own and that I do not really know what I want.

 

Like how your wife asked what is the best way to get home form the store, that was how my life was like, then I started making my decisions and of course my H would say, "why are you going home this way, you should do this way instead." I would just say, well I like to go this way and that was that (but I was still a little afraid of him being angry with me). I was at my friends the other day and I said: I have to pick up my shoes from the living room or I will get in trouble, she was shocked and I said, I know you are thinking to yourself, get in trouble, like I am kid. But that is my reality that is how I feel, I worry about his reactions and being dissapointed with me. I told my H this.

 

I told him that I was always walking on egg shells trying to do what HE wanted and the way HE wanted ir because I felt that if I didn't I would get in toruble becasue I disspointed him. He said that he did not undestand how I could feel that way. It is even hard to explain.

 

When I tell my friend about these things and how we interact she gets so angry and she tells me, how can you be so calm I mean I am getting pissed off for you and I said, this is my life, this is what I am used to.

 

So at this point in my life, yes that is what I am used to but I am trying to change that. It is painful but necessary.

 

Thanks again for both of your posts.

[MoonGirl]

I don't know if it's they understand but its there way of getting what they want. After you are so used to always getting your way & people do things your way and then they start doing or wanting to do it differently you become defensive without knowing it and in order to get back that control you do things to belittle the other person.

 

I feel a lot of it is not being confedent in yourself even though you think you are. You have to feel like you are better then the other person to make yourself feel better about yourself.

 

PWSX3,

 

I'm not sure exactly how controlling you were with your wife, but my husband was not only emotionally controlling (with things like how I did my hair, the way I dressed, the friends I had, etc), but also physically abusive. He started with smashing things in the house, and then moved on to holding me against my will and then to pushing me and hitting me. Fortunately, he never actually injured me, but living with him was terrifying nonetheless. For RF, her husband is also violent and threatens suicide to control her. Trying to understand these actions and why someone could not comprehend that they are abusive is really difficult.

 

I had to overcome the need to understand why my husband was doing what he was doing and whether or not he understood the consequences to me emotionally. Because he was unwilling to admit he has a problem and was unwilling to get help, the only option I had was to leave him. I truly hope things turn out differently for RF, but understand that living with a man like this is terrifying, confusing, and sad. Unless he's willing to really turn himself around, knowing what he might be thinking and why he does the things he does doesn't really help.

[ilmw]

I have often likened a person staying in an abusive relationship to:

 

The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage can show signs of having feelings of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases, and bride kidnapping. Origin of the name The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal. The term Stockholm Syndrome was chosen by the criminologist and psychiatrist Nils Bejerot, who assisted the police during the robbery, and referred to the syndrome in a

 

ilmw

[MoonGirl]

Yes, ilmw. There's a very good article on this too:

http://www.drjoecarver.com/stockholm.html

[PWSX3]

PWSX3,

 

I'm not sure exactly how controlling you were with your wife, but my husband was not only emotionally controlling (with things like how I did my hair, the way I dressed, the friends I had, etc), but also physically abusive. He started with smashing things in the house, and then moved on to holding me against my will and then to pushing me and hitting me. Fortunately, he never actually injured me, but living with him was terrifying nonetheless. For RF, her husband is also violent and threatens suicide to control her. Trying to understand these actions and why someone could not comprehend that they are abusive is really difficult.

I never hit nor did I throw anything so I guess we are different in some parts.

I had to overcome the need to understand why my husband was doing what he was doing and whether or not he understood the consequences to me emotionally. Because he was unwilling to admit he has a problem and was unwilling to get help, the only option I had was to leave him. I truly hope things turn out differently for RF, but understand that living with a man like this is terrifying, confusing, and sad. Unless he's willing to really turn himself around, knowing what he might be thinking and why he does the things he does doesn't really help.

I highlighted what I feel are two very important issues someone has to do. First they have to man up and except they have a problem. The second is to man up even more & do something about it & until that happens there isn't anything a person can do. It takes a big person I feel to look at themselves and take full responsibility for what they have done & to change who they are.

[MoonGirl]

PWSX3,

 

I certainly agree. I'll bet your wife is really impressed that you're willing to improve yourself and your relationship with her! Just wish all people would be willing to do the same!

[PWSX3]

I just hope that red's H well to see there is something he can do to make his life better & that he does follow thru.....