He says our sex probs are 90% me

[Storyrider]

I wanted to clarify that despite the lack of sexual passion, I was very happy and emotionally excited on my wedding day, and loved him very much on the day we got married. And still do. I thought it might have seemed as though everything is blah. And that is not the case. Just the sex.

 

He says I have an unnatural separation of love and sex where it should be intertwined.

 

I wonder though if I have just separated them when it comes to him because there were other aspects of him I needed so much that I discounted my feelings about his body.

 

When we were passionate, in the first month or so, it sometimes felt like something supernatural as opposed to something physical. It is hard to explain, but it was like our souls were trying to join and our bodies were almost in the way.

 

Sometimes I wish he would stop telling me what I have wrong about sex and instead show me with his body, but it feels like he was showing me just the opposite by refusing to have sex with me until we were married. And yes, I was and am angry with him about that.

[Mark B]

This is the internet and you are anonymous. Be more specific about what it is that he is lacking that you find in others that would turn you on. You say he is handsome and slender, not a big, ugly slob. Is it something about his penis, his age, his face...what is it that turns you off him? I know you don't like sounding superficial, but when it comes to sex we're all superficial to a degree.

[norajane]

I wonder though if I have just separated them when it comes to him because there were other aspects of him I needed so much that I discounted my feelings about his body.

 

Sometimes I wish he would stop telling me what I have wrong about sex and instead show me with his body, but it feels like he was showing me just the opposite by refusing to have sex with me until we were married. And yes, I was and am angry with him about that.

 

What is it that you needed from him?

 

What would you like him to show you with his body? Have you told him or tried to show him what you want him to do?

[crazy_grl]

No, I have to admit I have never been with a man where sex what withheld for that long a period of time. I just know others who have. They tell me that they wanted their man more. But maybe that doesn't happen in all cases.

 

I think it depends on the individual. For some, things that they can't have become more appealing. They love the challenge and anticipation. That would mean the appeal of sex with their partner would increase as time went by.

 

Others will lose interest in things that aren't available. They accept that they can't have it and don't put their energy into an unwinnable battle. So if not having sex with their partner, they'd adapt to it and no longer desire it.

 

I think it also depends on whether your partner is making you feel desired. If you felt like they really wanted you too and were barely able to keep their hands off you, it'd be more likely to increase your anticipation than if they seemed content with not ever having sex with you.

 

Storyrider, I can identify with what you're saying, because this is what I fear happening with the guy I'm dating now. I think he's attractive, and he's a great guy. He tends to not want to have sex, and it's lowering my attraction for him. It is a little different in my situation than yours, because I think his reasons come from self-esteem and trust issues, not wanting to wait for marriage. For some reason he seems to think I'm just using him to get laid and buy me things until someone better comes along. That couldn't be any less true, but I haven't figured out a way to convince him otherwise. I'm not sure it's possible. I want to feel passionate about him like I have before, but when he continually shuts things down because of his insecurities, my passion dwindles.

 

Also I think you might have resentment built up that's causing you to see your husband as unattractive.

[Storyrider]

What is it that you needed from him?

I was twenty-two. I'd done a bunch of drugs starting in high school (LSD, exctacy, MDMA, mushrooms, cocaine, speed, and lots of pot and alcohol) which seemed to have the effect of numbing me emotionally. I'd been in a series of semi-monogamous dead-end relationships, one after the other, where one or both of us cheated. I had pretty much decided that everyone was out for themselves, everyone saw a different reality, and nothing mattered.

 

He taught me about trust, truth, he believed in God. I had something of a spiritual awakening.

 

I can remember talking to him on the phone and staring at the grain of wood in a door, and thinking that he was showing me this grain in life that I never knew existed, and the grain represented Truth and God, and that without knowing about them I had been struggling against this invisible grain, and that now that he had shown me, I was able to see and move with the grain.

 

It is possible the feelings assocated with this spiritual awakening got confused with my feelings for him, and muddled things up further. It was like being high.

 

What would you like him to show you with his body? Have you told him or tried to show him what you want him to do?

 

I want him to be more animal and less intellectual/spiritual.

 

This is the internet and you are anonymous. Be more specific about what it is that he is lacking that you find in others that would turn you on. You say he is handsome and slender, not a big, ugly slob. Is it something about his penis, his age, his face...what is it that turns you off him? I know you don't like sounding superficial, but when it comes to sex we're all superficial to a degree.

 

Just for you, I will try. But please take it with a grain of salt because it could all be BS. He is very slight about the arms, shoulders and neck, and that is the main thing about his body that turns me off. I just don't know if that is really true, or just a story I have told myself to distract me from a deeper issue, which is what he thinks. If we had the right pheremones or the stars were alligned properly then maybe his body would attract me no matter what his build, you know what I mean? He is built kind of like a short Topher Grace. Imagine Eric from That 70s Show only shorter and with bushy eyebrows. That is my husband.

 

Storyrider, I can identify with what you're saying, because this is what I fear happening with the guy I'm dating now. I think he's attractive, and he's a great guy. He tends to not want to have sex, and it's lowering my attraction for him. It is a little different in my situation than yours, because I think his reasons come from self-esteem and trust issues, not wanting to wait for marriage. For some reason he seems to think I'm just using him to get laid and buy me things until someone better comes along. That couldn't be any less true, but I haven't figured out a way to convince him otherwise. I'm not sure it's possible. I want to feel passionate about him like I have before, but when he continually shuts things down because of his insecurities, my passion dwindles.

 

Also I think you might have resentment built up that's causing you to see your husband as unattractive.

 

Hmm, your guy sounds troubled crazy_grl. It is hard to see his motives. It is almost like he is thinking like a girl.

 

I agree that I have anger and resentment built up with him. And he with me.

[CynicalP]

Threads like this just reinforce my belief that most women have absolutely no clue in what they want or desire. Here you describe your husband as a perfect angel and a great father, but this is not enough. Nope something is lacking, perhaps if he were to treat you like garbage you might find him more desirable. It certainly seems to be a common theme with the ladies, always attracted the losers who will treat them like crap and break their hearts, yet for the stand up guys in the world .... no lube action happening. Is it any wonder there are plenty of jerks in the world.

[Storyrider]

Threads like this just reinforce my belief that most women have absolutely no clue in what they want or desire.

 

In my twenties, when I married him, I thought I knew what I wanted. My common sense, values, emotions, intellect, all told me he was the one.

 

My libido told me otherwise. I ignored it.

 

Here you describe your husband as a perfect angel and a great father, but this is not enough.

 

Maybe a good marriage counselor or sex therepist could help me turn it around.

 

Or maybe I could turn it around by gradually reforming myself into a more generous, giving, and emotionally available wife, which is what my husband seems to think. (kind of the Dr. Laura proper care and feeding approach).

 

Or maybe there is something wrong that can't be fixed.

 

Nope something is lacking

 

You're absolutely right. What is lacking is my desire to be with my husband sexually.

 

Perhaps if he were to treat you like garbage you might find him more desirable. It certainly seems to be a common theme with the ladies, always attracted the losers who will treat them like crap and break their hearts, yet for the stand up guys in the world .... no lube action happening. Is it any wonder there are plenty of jerks in the world.

 

Nope. Here is where you're wrong. I wouldn't pick a jerk over him. I might have in my twenties. I would know better now. Women who pick jerks are either very insecure, very immature, or a combination of the two.

[CynicalP]

So what are you attracted too sexually? Is there any of those qualities found in your husband? Any thing that you can both do together to improve the situation. It's not 90% just you, it takes to to tango he might need a little nudge to get those juices flowing.

[Prudence]

Storyrider, OMG, I can relate to SO MUCH of what you are saying!! I have some very similar issues and feel confused right now am not sure how things will end up.

 

You said your sex life was ok for the first 4-6 weeks but then went downhill. That is about how mine and my husband's was. While we were dating, we just ignored the difficulties or let them slide, I think we were just so glad to have met someone and be having sex at all! It remained less frequent but the same quality over the first couple of years of marriage. Now, we haven't had sex for about three years.

 

Something that you said really rang true for me:

 

Originally Posted by Storyrider

I wonder though if I have just separated them when it comes to him because there were other aspects of him I needed so much that I discounted my feelings about his body

 

Wow, I can really relate. I think my husband and I really found emotional caretakers in each other, and companionship we didn't have otherwise, and we do laugh a lot, he's an incredibly funny guy. But I discounted the sexual problems. I don't want to hurt my husband, and I don't know how to handle the fact that I am not physically attracted to him. He might have an inkling, but I've always tried to reassure him that I AM attracted to him, even though I wasn't, because how can you tell your spouse you don't think he's sexy or attractive?

[norajane]

Wow, I can really relate. I think my husband and I really found emotional caretakers in each other, and companionship we didn't have otherwise, and we do laugh a lot, he's an incredibly funny guy. But I discounted the sexual problems. I don't want to hurt my husband, and I don't know how to handle the fact that I am not physically attracted to him. He might have an inkling, but I've always tried to reassure him that I AM attracted to him, even though I wasn't, because how can you tell your spouse you don't think he's sexy or attractive?

 

You haven't had sex in 3 years, and you think he doesn't know that you aren't attracted to him?

 

Why does he think you haven't had sex in 3 years?

 

Do you believe he is attracted to you?

[Prudence]

You haven't had sex in 3 years, and you think he doesn't know that you aren't attracted to him?

 

Why does he think you haven't had sex in 3 years?

 

Do you believe he is attracted to you?

 

Hi norajane,

 

I've said a little about this on the "how would you feel about a sexless marriage" thread, and I don't mean to hijack Storyrider's thread, but... my husband says he does not feel like a sexual person, and he thinks I'm not one either, I guess because we've never had a great, or even good, sex life and things have dwindled over the years to nothing. I think he used to be attracted to me, but I don't know if he still is, or if familiarity has quashed that.

 

It must seem odd to others that we got married in the first place, given our sexual difficulties, but at the time apparently other qualities overrode that. And you know, I think it might even have been four years because our youngest dog was a puppy then and he's almost 5 now.

[Storyrider]

So what are you attracted too sexually? Is there any of those qualities found in your husband? Any thing that you can both do together to improve the situation.

 

Yes, there are qualities I'm attracted to, and I do think the situation has potential to improve. I don't think it is an all or nothing, black and white thing.

 

Some things in our relationship have been so easy, almost effortless. This is simply not one of them. And looking at all the factors, it is no surprise.

 

Storyrider, OMG, I can relate to SO MUCH of what you are saying!! I have some very similar issues and feel confused right now am not sure how things will end up.

 

You said your sex life was ok for the first 4-6 weeks but then went downhill. That is about how mine and my husband's was. While we were dating, we just ignored the difficulties or let them slide, I think we were just so glad to have met someone and be having sex at all! It remained less frequent but the same quality over the first couple of years of marriage. Now, we haven't had sex for about three years.

 

Something that you said really rang true for me:

 

Originally Posted by Storyrider

I wonder though if I have just separated them when it comes to him because there were other aspects of him I needed so much that I discounted my feelings about his body

 

Wow, I can really relate. I think my husband and I really found emotional caretakers in each other, and companionship we didn't have otherwise, and we do laugh a lot, he's an incredibly funny guy. But I discounted the sexual problems. I don't want to hurt my husband, and I don't know how to handle the fact that I am not physically attracted to him. He might have an inkling, but I've always tried to reassure him that I AM attracted to him, even though I wasn't, because how can you tell your spouse you don't think he's sexy or attractive?

 

Prudence, you sound like a kind and thoughtful woman who loves her husband. Thanks for telling your story. It is good to know other people have gone through this.

 

Right now, if you haven't had sex for three years, I would say you should try to get some action going again because your sex life is going to be totally dead and buried if you let it languish this long.

 

Some things that have worked for us in the past:

 

-Have several hours alone/date time to talk and share thoughts and feelings

-Drink some wine to relax

-Watch a sexy or romantic movie (not necessarily porn, just something that gets you in the mood.)

-Start small, just massage or touch each other. Don't expect too much.

-Focus on the things about him that attracted you to begin with

-Fantasize

 

Thanks for making me remember these pointers for myself. It does help.

It doesn't mean this will fix your problem or make it go away. It may always take extra effort, and that is kind of frustrating.

 

In one sense I am so thankful that my marriage is one defined by love, peace and mutual support. On the other hand, I'm disappointed that sex is such a struggle.

 

PM me if you want.

[Mr. Lucky]

And you know, I think it might even have been four years because our youngest dog was a puppy then and he's almost 5 now.

Is that 4 years since you've had sex in dog years or people years ?

 

Prudence, I don't think that there is any such thing as a non-sexual person (LoveShack post counts notwithstanding). But I do that that there are people that don't know HOW to be sexual, that have not yet discovered that side. And so I'd second the recommendations for counseling...

 

Mr. Lucky

[fromtheotherside]

Is that 4 years since you've had sex in dog years or people years ?

 

Prudence, I don't think that there is any such thing as a non-sexual person (LoveShack post counts notwithstanding). But I do that that there are people that don't know HOW to be sexual, that have not yet discovered that side. And so I'd second the recommendations for counseling...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Mr. Lucky,

 

There IS such a thing as a non-sexual person. Millions as a matter-of-fact. We identify ourselves as ASEXUAL. Asexual is an orientation just like hetero, homo, and bi. It means not experiencing sexual attraction to another person. For more info please go to:

 

http://www.asexuality.org

 

 

Thanks!

 

From the other side

[silktricks]

There IS such a thing as a non-sexual person. Millions as a matter-of-fact. We identify ourselves as ASEXUAL. Asexual is an orientation just like hetero, homo, and bi. It means not experiencing sexual attraction to another person. For more info please go to:

 

they make the best priests :lmao:

[CynicalP]

I certainly hope that asexual person makes it known upfront before they becoming involved with another person that sex is issue. I know that would be a deal breaker for me.

[fromtheotherside]

I wanted to clarify that despite the lack of sexual passion, I was very happy and emotionally excited on my wedding day, and loved him very much on the day we got married. And still do. I thought it might have seemed as though everything is blah. And that is not the case. Just the sex.

 

He says I have an unnatural separation of love and sex where it should be intertwined.

 

I wonder though if I have just separated them when it comes to him because there were other aspects of him I needed so much that I discounted my feelings about his body.

 

When we were passionate, in the first month or so, it sometimes felt like something supernatural as opposed to something physical. It is hard to explain, but it was like our souls were trying to join and our bodies were almost in the way.

 

Sometimes I wish he would stop telling me what I have wrong about sex and instead show me with his body, but it feels like he was showing me just the opposite by refusing to have sex with me until we were married. And yes, I was and am angry with him about that.

 

 

Storyrider,

 

What he says here is just his opinion. It may very well be true for him but it could be perfectly natural for you. Not everybody intertwines sex with love. IMO they should NOT be intertwined. When the two are separate, it allows one to love freely and truely w/o the incumbrances of a physical relationship. Let's put it this way...would you only love somebody with whom you had great sex? I think not. By combining the two, *theoretically* a truely loving relationship would not be possible without having sex. IMO sex would be the way SOME people express their love whereas for others there are so many other ways. I do believe that for a sexual person that is truely in love with their partner, sex will enhance that love. The part I do not agree with though is that if the sex is good it will make one love the other more. If one goes along with this line of thinking then if the sex is not well...*great* then the love diminishes. This line of thinking also allows for the free use of sex (in a somewhat twisted way). It will allow some to use sex as a tool to "see if it's true love". Too many are freely giving of themselves in empty sexual relationships already.

 

If it's true that you separate love from sex, then IMO it's the way you are wired. No amount of therapy will "fix" that. I identify as asexual. Part of that identification is the separation of love from sex. Trying to "fix" my "problem" would be no different than trying to "fix" gayness or lesbianism. Each person is different in what they feel or don't feel sexually. I accept me the way I am!

 

I am in no way suggesting that you are asexual though. You are the only one that can make that decision for yourself. I have never felt sexual desire or attraction nor do I get "horny" or have fantasies. I also do not experience sexual thoughts or dreams, or sexual passion. I am a true asexual. A hetero-romantic asexual.

From the other side:)

[Storyrider]

Storyrider,

What he says here is just his opinion. It may very well be true for him but it could be perfectly natural for you. Not everybody intertwines sex with love. IMO they should NOT be intertwined. When the two are separate, it allows one to love freely and truely w/o the incumbrances of a physical relationship.

 

I disagree with you.

 

And the more I read through this thread, think about my own recent feelings, and about how all this came about, the more I believe the following about sex:

 

--When it comes to a man and a woman who love each other romantically, sex must be at the core of it. Period.

 

--Sex is the necessary manifestation of a man and woman's love for one another. It should be as unavoidable as gravity. The person you're meant to marry--you should not be able to keep your hands off that person!

 

--If that love is not manifest through sex, it is broken and incomplete.

 

I think he is right about me when he says my love for him has been separated from sex. I am beginning to think he is very, very wrong that this is all about something that is wrong with me. It is something that is wrong with our relationship, and I'm certainly partly responsible for that. It started off wrong and to put it right we would now have to unlearn all sorts of counterproductive behaviors that define our relationship. I'm afraid it will be a patch job at best. But at this point, with so much invested, perhaps it will have to do.

 

I am in no way suggesting that you are asexual though.

 

Thanks for sharing your story, but I think your situation is very different from mine. And I agree with CynicalP that it would be a mistake for someone asexual to marry.

[silktricks]

He then said he would advise the poster that if she didn't want to have sex with her husband, she doesn't really love him. Or not as a wife should.

 

I asked him if he thought I didn't love him, and he said I could/would never give my whole self to him, and that I shied away from intimacy.

 

To me this is a key to what you've been saying about your marriage. It appears from these statements, that your husband doesn't believe that you love him.

 

He says this is why counseling won't do me any good because I have no desire to change.

Do you have desire to change? Do you want to love him physically? If you do, then he's wrong and you should go get counseling. If he's not wrong, that you don't have any desire to change, then maybe counseling isn't the thing for you.

 

I asked him if it was possible our problems are about how we relate to each other as a couple, and not just about me?

 

He said no.

 

You said that you masturbate, but when you do, you don't think of your husband. Well, what do you think of (I know that's getting awfully personal, and I don't really want to know, I want you to think about it is all). Do you think at all, or is it simply physical stimulus? If you think, is it kinky in some way? Do you fear your husband would be appalled at your darkside?

 

You say that your husband doesn't attract you physically. What type does attract you physically? Is it the Marlboro man? muscles? pudgy? Older/ younger? Do you find yourself most attracted to the popular image that is presented by the media? There is a well-known phenomena that shows that women are more attracted to men that other women are attracted to.

 

Do you want to be attracted to your husband, or do you already possibly feel that he has so much control in your relationship, that you simply don't want to give him that control as well?

 

I dunno, but if it were me, I'd get me to a counselor to see if I couldn't iron out some of my issues. Then I'd drag him in with me.

[Storyrider]

Do you want to be attracted to your husband, or do you already possibly feel that he has so much control in your relationship, that you simply don't want to give him that control as well?

 

Very penetrating question (no pun intentended). This hits close to home.

[Storyrider]

OK, don't be too hard on me because this is going to sound kind of harsh.

 

I think I mentioned before that when we have sex I hear a lot of negative self-talk in my head.

 

There is a voice, like a mental tape loop, that starts berating myself and him, but especially him. It goes through all the things he's doing awkwardly, all the aspects of his body I don't like, etc.

 

This creates a self-consciousness on my part that makes it very hard to relax. I float above the scene, as if I'm watching us have sex and critique-ing it, as opposed to being in it. I can quiet it with alcohol sometimes, but that isn't always practical.

 

I don't like this experience at all. I want to avoid it. And there are times when afterwards, I remember everything this voice said more than I remember the sex itself. It is a negative experience, and makes me dread doing it again. I don't like the berating voice. I don't like the negative things it says about him because they stick with me afterwards. If we don't have sex, I don't have to dredge up all these negative feelings about him. I actually feel better about him, more loving toward him when we don't have sex. Less doubtful.

 

I know this sounds psycho. And actually in the last two months we have had more successful encounters where this hasn't happened, but has been because I have been almost 100 percent fantasizing while we were doing it.

[burning 4 revenge]

i'm going to live with my mother until i die

[crazy_grl]

Hmm, your guy sounds troubled crazy_grl. It is hard to see his motives. It is almost like he is thinking like a girl.

 

Just wanted to address your previous comment before I respond to your recent post. You're right. I know my guy has some issues. He got divorced about 5 years ago and hasn't had a good relationship since. I don't think he's gotten over it. I'm not in any rush or anything though. I can be patient and let him work through things. I just wish he didn't mistake my patience and caution for disinterest.

 

This creates a self-consciousness on my part that makes it very hard to relax. I float above the scene, as if I'm watching us have sex and critique-ing it, as opposed to being in it. I can quiet it with alcohol sometimes, but that isn't always practical.

 

That sounds like there are deeper issues at work here. Have you considered going to an individual counselor about this? Have you ever been to one in the past? I think you'd benefit from both marriage & individual counseling.

 

It seems like you two have a combination of issues going on here: your personal sexual hang-ups, your resentment for your H, your H's resentment toward you, intimacy problems, etc.

 

If you two really love each other and have felt passion and attraction for each other in the past (even for a brief time), then it seems possible to get it back, if you both want to. It's not as though you've never felt that way about him.

 

Is MC &/or IC something you'd consider?

[Storyrider]

Just wanted to address your previous comment before I respond to your recent post. You're right. I know my guy has some issues. He got divorced about 5 years ago and hasn't had a good relationship since. I don't think he's gotten over it. I'm not in any rush or anything though. I can be patient and let him work through things. I just wish he didn't mistake my patience and caution for disinterest.

 

It sounds like you have a lot of empathy for him. Maybe if you have some fun times and create some happy memories together it will help him feel better.

 

 

Is MC &/or IC something you'd consider?

 

Yes, I would very much like to go to counselling on my own for a start. I'm going to try to make it happen as soon as we can afford it.

[Prudence]

 

 

 

 

Right now, if you haven't had sex for three years, I would say you should try to get some action going again because your sex life is going to be totally dead and buried if you let it languish this long.

 

....

 

Thanks for making me remember these pointers for myself. It does help.

It doesn't mean this will fix your problem or make it go away. It may always take extra effort, and that is kind of frustrating.

 

In one sense I am so thankful that my marriage is one defined by love, peace and mutual support. On the other hand, I'm disappointed that sex is such a struggle.

 

PM me if you want.

 

Hi Storyrider,

 

Thanks for the response. Those things would be a lot easier if I were attracted to him! I know that sounds so horrible and cold. But I don't have any lust for him, and it's made worse by lust I do have for someone else. I don't want to have an affair, and I doubt that I will, and I do respect and love my husband enough that I owe him the effort to try to work things out. I don't know yet if this is a phase that I'm going through (finally dealing with the sex issue and deciding that I DO want a sex life) and I'll go back to the way I have been, or if this is a lasting change.

 

Your husband is lucky that you want to try and save things and improve your relationship. I sympathize with your anguish. Thanks for the offer of PMing, I probably will.