anyone else have a wife like this?

[Sevenmack]

Sorry Recordproducer, but cleaning the house is important for several reasons. One is that it's not just one person living in the mess; four people live in it and only two are actually capable of doing any cleaning. And if he's doing most of the cleanup work, then she should also be doing her part. A relationship consists of two people carrying their weight. And right now, one of them isn't.

 

It's more than about cleaning; it's about who carries all the weight in the family. Why should he carry the entire burden when there are two capable people who can share the burden together? This is, after all, what a relationship is about.

 

She doesn't want to do her part. She doesn't want someone else to come in and help clean the house. She doesn't want to be an active member of the family. What is it that she wants? It's frustrating from my end to figure her out; I can imagine how he feels. She sounds less like a dreamer and more like a selfish woman who married the wrong man, wishes she left, but isn't dumb enough to lose all the benefits of the relationship.

 

Perhaps she is, as woe_is_me argues, is sending a call for help. But she must communicate clearly to him what she needs and what's going on with her. He's not a mind-reader and if she's not speaking clearly to him, he can't interpret her thoughts and statements. It's as much her obligation to communicate clearly with him as it is his responsibility to do the converse.

 

Right now, from where I sit, she doesn't want to be in this marriage any longer. He'd just as well let her go.

[mrmaximum]

I agree with Seven and JamesM. You can't discount Medicine until you try it at least. You never know, and what can you truly lose by giving it a shot? Exhaust all possibilities until you throw in the towel so at least you leave no stone unturned yeah? Cliche' but still so true! As for abandonment, you are responsible for doing everything you can to fix your marriage. If after all of this she still doesn't come around, you have two kids to think about.

[RecordProducer]

It's more than about cleaning; it's about who carries all the weight in the family. Why should he carry the entire burden when there are two capable people who can share the burden together? This is, after all, what a relationship is about.

OK, I agree with you. I just have a weird feeling that their marriage has lost all the romance and for some reason this guy doesn't sound very romantic to me. This is one of those cases where we really need to know his wife's side of the story.

[Sevenmack]

You're probably right that he needs to step up to the plate in the relationship when it comes to the romance department. But she needs to tell him that. And not just by whining. Sit him down, lay things out and explain the needs and wants.

 

When it comes to relationships, the lack of communication is the killer. She's definitely not communicating or not doing it well.

[JamesM]

OK, I agree with you. I just have a weird feeling that their marriage has lost all the romance and for some reason this guy doesn't sound very romantic to me. This is one of those cases where we really need to know his wife's side of the story.

 

 

RP, I agree with you. He doesn't appear very romantic, but I think that is because his anger has overshadowed his love...hopefully for the moment only. And it would be very nice to hear the wife's side, but as usual, we have to try and surmise what it is.

 

Jimm IMO should make a list of possible solutions and include near the top..."Romantic gestures I can do:" and list them. "List reasons I orginally chose her as my wife:" and list them. Then begin acting on the romantic gestures.

 

Based on what we know, I am guessing that your wife, Jimm, definitely feels your dissatisfaction with her housekeeping. And she may have given up. If you have been critical of her every imperfection, then she may simply have decided to do nothing. On the other hand, the opposite is true. IF she is simply lazy, then you have enabled her to stay that way. You will do what she won't, so...she has discovered that you will complain, but you still do things. Personally, I lean towards the "she has given up" idea...not the lazy idea. And that is because she is a teacher and has a job outside of the home. I haven't heard you say how good of a teacher she is.

 

Another thing is that the two of you are not a couple. Learning to love each other again can bring you together. Then she may feel more inclined to work on her imperfections when she feels that you love her...in spite of them. When we feel that we need to live up to expectations for love, then many of us simply rebel and think...forget it, if he won't accept me as me, then he doesn't really love me.

 

Before you take the easy way out and divorce, begin an action plan. At least if you do choose divorce, you will know that you have done all that you could.

[RecordProducer]

You're probably right that he needs to step up to the plate in the relationship when it comes to the romance department. But she needs to tell him that. And not just by whining. Sit him down, lay things out and explain the needs and wants.

 

When it comes to relationships, the lack of communication is the killer. She's definitely not communicating or not doing it well.

Amen to all that. But I have learned that with some profiles of people, you just can't communicate. They don't understand what you're saying and you don't understand them. When she wants to talk and he doesn't care about her "long stories" and can't wait for them to be over so she can set the table, you can get a clear picture of their marriage. She needs company - he neds things to be done. Major personality gap. They are not the first or the last couple with this problem. It's just that sometimes it's the house chores, sometimes money, sometimes other things that they get stuck in. But the root is always the invincible problem of different characters.

[RecordProducer]

Jimm IMO should make a list of possible solutions and include near the top..."Romantic gestures I can do:" and list them. "List reasons I orginally chose her as my wife:" and list them. Then begin acting on the romantic gestures.

1. Cut the onion

2. Kiss the wife

3. Peel the potatos

4. Sqeeze wife's butt

5. Start soteeing the onion...

6. In the meanwhile tell wife how beaituful she is until the onions become golden brown...

 

 

I am actually NOT joking!

[Gunny376]

I've read most of this thread ~ all of your posts Jim, and most of the replys.

 

I don't believe that she's mental, depressed, etc. She comes acros to me as a spoiled, lazy teenager, who's acting and behaving as she always has when she lived at home and she had a Mommie to take care of all the household chores, doing just as she wants, as she wants, when she likes, whose seriously lacking in self control ~ self-dicipline, and is very much weak-minded.

 

I also don't see her every changing ~ with or withoiut couseling. She was this way before you married her, and she'll be this way with the next sucker that comes along, except the brief interim period when she lures him into her lair.

 

And, I believe that there are underlining issues within your marrage ~ and the the housekeeping, picking up, putting things away ~ and subsequent fighting is the two of you way of tap dancing around those issues. Right off the top, the reason you're not getting the sex you want, and the wife isn't getting the love she wants.

 

Even with the recent adaptations in divorce law toward no-fault divorce, most state laws (with the exception of Lousiana) is based upon Old English Common Law, which basically dictates that whatever property the parties owned prior to the marriage ~ in of and as a general rule belongs to said party that owned it prior to the marriage. The courts today generally look at divorce as the legal disolution of a business partnership.

I would consult with an attorny ~ and determine what your options are. This is especially true if her name isn't on any deeds.

 

Another option might be to transfer ownership of the rental property to ne of your parents or other trusted relative.

 

As far as the business goes ~ surely you have this incorporated, along with all of its ensuing benefits?

 

As for custody, women get custody of the children in 90% of the divorce cases ~ primarly because men don't pursue it. But, in those 10% of the cases where the father does pursue custody ~ they get awarded custody 90% of the time. From your posts it sounds as though the children would be better in your custody.

 

Finally, in 98% of all domestic cases I ever heard of or seen ~ its the man that gets carted away in cuffs. The police almost automatically assume the man is the abuser. Even if the man is the one that is assulted ~ the police damn fall down laughing.

 

There's a double standard that applies to men and women is disputes, assults, and rapes.

 

~ A couple of years ago a kid said he was raped at gun point by two women in Washington state. The police didn't believe him ~ until it happen several more times.

 

~ The female sailor that said she was raped twice while serving in Iraq, as reported by the New York Times ~ but has never even been to Iraq.

 

~ The guy that just got out of prison after 28 years for a rape he didn't commit (You hear about this quite often)

 

~ The principal in LA who lost his job and carrer, because one of his female students accused of sexual molestation ~ but later recanted.

 

~ The assumptions and accustions that have been made on this thread.

 

All of this is prompted by the women's lib movement to get men to cower and not stand up for themselves. And, you're doing some of that yourself here, afraid of lossing everything you've worked and scarificed years for.

 

But, to delay the inevetable would be only throwing more money down the hole ~ as the years go by. Even if you did have to liquidate your assets, better to do so at 35 while your still young and can start over than 45,55, 65? Besides your wiser, more experience than when you first started out.

 

I'd be speaking with razor of an attorny if it was me ~ finding out what my options are.

 

She's already thrown out the "D" which BTW too many women abuse in marrage. I'm not married, but if I should ever get married (I seriously doubt that) again, the first time the wife spouts divorce or I'm leaving I'm going to be the answers to her dreams before she can "Don't do it!"

 

I'm me, and you're you, but if it was me, I get myself a lawyer, a real go for your throat razor. I'd get a court date, temp custody of the kids, I'd file dosmetic abuse charges against her, get an RO, have evicted from the home th night before the court date, and a locksmith standing by to change the locks.

 

As she walked out with her grip ~ I'd say ..................HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW!!!!

[JamesM]

Gunny, many times I have seen words of wisdom from you, but this time I disagree 100%.

 

The easy way (if I can call it that) is to search for that razor attorney. But as a guy who has endured a fair amount to stay in a marriage, sometimes the hard work is necessary. Sometimes we must feel that every angle and stone has been overturned. And if we don't and we leave, then we may feel that we failed. But if we do everything possible, then we can at least feel that we have done all that we could have.

 

Divorce is not easy, but it is compared to working and fixing a marriage...when things get rough.

[Sevenmack]

And from a certain perspective, staying does make sense. If she leaves, he loses half. And if he leaves, he still loses half. The question is whether letting her take half is worth it. In this case, it probably is.

[Gunny376]

Gunny, many times I have seen words of wisdom from you, but this time I disagree 100%.

 

The easy way (if I can call it that) is to search for that razor attorney. But as a guy who has endured a fair amount to stay in a marriage, sometimes the hard work is necessary. Sometimes we must feel that every angle and stone has been overturned. And if we don't and we leave, then we may feel that we failed. But if we do everything possible, then we can at least feel that we have done all that we could have.

 

Divorce is not easy, but it is compared to working and fixing a marriage...when things get rough.

 

Oh! Sorry!

 

I would do all of that just to get her attention that I was dead serious about their being serious changes made. I went the most extreme with it.

 

But my point is ~ that Jim needs to find some way of seriously motivating her to want to and needing to make permanent changes ~ or else.

 

Usually, that involves putting someone back to the wall, and they're being faced with losing everything.

 

She doesn't do laundry

She doesn't cook

She doesn't clean house

She doesn't want to be intimate

 

Hell, my being single and living by myself (my children are grown, gone, and on their own) I've got everything Jim's got less the children?!

 

Right now, she's acting just like a spoiled, ilresponsible teenager. Heck no she doesn't want a house keeper ~ she's already got one ~ JIM!

[Ladyjane14]

Sorry Gunny. But when I walk a mile in Jimm's wife's shoes... I wouldn't be doing any of those things either.

 

I'd love to hear her side of it, but just based on what he's said so far.. he seems a fairly angry guy. It's hard to imagine that she doesn't feel his distaste for her.

 

Folks who feel overly criticized can't be motivated by a stick of dynamite. In their minds, nothing they do will be good enough anyway, so why bother?

 

The only way they can get this thing out of the ditch is to re-connect with one another on an emotional level. Force won't work here. They've got to WANT to please each other.

[RecordProducer]

Sorry Gunny. But when I walk a mile in Jimm's wife's shoes... I wouldn't be doing any of those things either.

 

I'd love to hear her side of it, but just based on what he's said so far.. he seems a fairly angry guy. It's hard to imagine that she doesn't feel his distaste for her.

 

Folks who feel overly criticized can't be motivated by a stick of dynamite. In their minds, nothing they do will be good enough anyway, so why bother?

 

The only way they can get this thing out of the ditch is to re-connect with one another on an emotional level. Force won't work here. They've got to WANT to please each other.

Well said, as always!

 

I am astonished by the number of men who hate women so much, it almost makes me feel powerful (all women) if we can frighten the big beast that doesn't know how to be gentle to us.

 

You women haters should be gay. Too bad you like pussy.

[Gunny376]

Sorry Gunny. But when I walk a mile in Jimm's wife's shoes... I wouldn't be doing any of those things either.

 

I'd love to hear her side of it, but just based on what he's said so far.. he seems a fairly angry guy. It's hard to imagine that she doesn't feel his distaste for her.

 

Folks who feel overly criticized can't be motivated by a stick of dynamite. In their minds, nothing they do will be good enough anyway, so why bother?

 

The only way they can get this thing out of the ditch is to re-connect with one another on an emotional level. Force won't work here. They've got to WANT to please each other.

 

Point conceded, LJ, point conceded.

 

Of course the thing to do to begin with would have been to be pro-active and not let thing deteriorated to this level to begin with, but now that it has its taken on a life of its own and is feeding on itself

 

Force won't work here.

 

True enough. With some people, a forty head mule-team, and two wagons full of dynamite wouldn't be enough to move them?

 

They've got to WANT to please each other.

 

Maybe they should get split up and get over each other ~ together?

[Gunny376]

Too bad you like pussy.

 

Yep, that's our problem alright~ we hate women ~ but we love pu**y!":o

 

I don't hate women ~ I can't stand a femi-nazi though!

 

Can't we just all be friends? :love:

[Gunny376]

 

I am astonished by the number of men who hate women so much

 

As I said I don't hate women, its their divorce lawyers ~ judges I can't stand. :mad: Along with the double standard that all to many women laughingly use to their advantage.

 

A man cheats ~ its his fault

A woman cheats ~ its still his fault

 

A man cheats ~ she get half his stuff

A woman cheats ~ she still gets have his stuff.

 

A domestic dispute occurs the man is the one that at the very least has to go sleep in the motel or his car, or gets arrested.

 

A woman insinuates (even without proof) that a man sexually molested, assulted, raped her ~ he goes to jail and is guilty until proven innocent?

 

And, I too for one would like to hear Jim's wife side of the story.

[Ladyjane14]

Maybe they should get split up and get over each other ~ together?

 

How 'bout they buy a duplex and stay married?? :laugh:

[Gunny376]

How 'bout they buy a duplex and stay married?? :laugh:

 

{With Brit accent} By Jove, I think you might spot on there old girl!

[Gunny376]

1. Cut the onion

2. Kiss the wife

3. Peel the potatos

4. Sqeeze wife's butt

5. Start soteeing the onion...

6. In the meanwhile tell wife how beaituful she is until the onions become golden brown...

 

 

I am actually NOT joking!

 

Well Jim, lets go down the list so far, under the premise of doing what works and not doing what doesn’t works.

 

Counseling

 

Hiring a housekeeper

 

Arguing

 

Getting angry

 

Getting frustrated

 

A lot of angry men here, advocate getting a divorce. etc.

 

And RP and LJ advocate getting back to the basic and fundamentals of making love (as in outside the bedroom) and re-establishing the emotional connection ~ aka ~ why men don't get enough sex, and women don't get enough love. :love:

 

I'm not expert by far, and I'm just guessing here, but LJ and RP might know a thing or two about women that I don't know?

 

As I said in my initial post (I believe) I don't think this has anything to do with housework ~ it has to do with emotional intimacy ~ physical intimacy, and the housework is the issue the two of you are using to dance around the issue.

 

She wants and needs emotional intimacy (80 - 90% everything but intercourse) and when you start doing that she'll be postively motivated to meet you at least half way toward some of your needs, like physical intimacy. (men-speak: sex)

 

The first thing I would recommend is that you just leave the Hell alone until you can fill your tool box up with the skill set you need to re-connect emotionally. In other words quit doing the dance with her.

 

Next the other thing you can do right here and now ~ is left go of the "dark side" of the force ~ energy aka your anger. (Step away from the darkside Luke, step away! )

 

For a guy that's accomplish all you have at age 35, I'm sure you know a lot of **** about a lot **** ~ but obviously one thing you don't know is how to meet your wives emotional needs, and that's why she's not interested in meeting yours.

 

Your going to need to go back to school. You're going to need to get yourself some 'edumacation'. Check out Marriagebuilders and Divorcebusting and the books offered there.

 

Check out my post (#18) here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114655&page=2&highlight=Gunny376

 

And #35, 40, and 41 here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114655&page=3&highlight=Gunny376

 

Start applying what you learn, quit arguing, keeping learning and growing how to be successful at being married, dedicate yourself to reading at least one book a year about women, communicating, relationship, apply for 90 days (and keep applying thereafter) and your wife might become more attentive, interested, motivated toward meeting your needs, (sex and helping around the house.

 

If you make the decsion to go from being an average husband to a great husband, and the envy of all the women in your town ~ you've given her something very precious and hard for most women to find.

 

Once you've learned the mechanics, you'll be surprised how low maintenance women are, and how little it cost you in terms of time, effort, energy and even money.

 

You'll know she's coming around when you get her laughing and grinning like a briar eating mule all the time.

[Ladyjane14]

Check out my post (#18) here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114655&page=2&highlight=Gunny376

 

And #35, 40, and 41 here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114655&page=3&highlight=Gunny376

 

Those are EXCELLENT posts... just wanted to add my recommendation.

 

Love the one you signed on to love. Love her actively. Fulfill the vows YOU made... to love, honor, and cherish.

 

You can't MAKE anybody do anything. All you can do is help them wanna.

 

 

p.s. You can tell the planets have aligned when RP and I are in agreement! Take it a run with it. It don't get weirder than that.

 

{RP}

[RichardSchulz]

Did You Marry My Ex?

We got married under the premise that she would be a stay at home be a mom to her kids from a previous marriage, she couldn't handle that so she pretended to get a job, then when I suggested she help with the New cost of the child care and house keeping she said she shouldnt have to help, that she should get to keep what ever she made...

But back to you...If it hasn't always been this way I can highly recommend that you do something you probably havn't done...Look to see what you are doing different, When is the last time you told her how beautiful she is?, whens the last time you took her out?, you know the things you did when you Loved her??? Just a thought!

 

PS- Do Everything in Your Power to Restore your marriage, Divorce Sucks for all!!

[Sevenmack]

Recordproducer wrote: When she wants to talk and he doesn't care about her "long stories" and can't wait for them to be over so she can set the table, you can get a clear picture of their marriage. She needs company - he neds things to be done. Major personality gap.

 

So they both need to learn how to communicate on some sort of neutral terms: She needs to cut down the long stories and get to the quick. He needs to realize that she'll never be as succinct as he is, so give her more time to talk.

 

But right now, she's not really talking or even attempting to find a solution. And from his end, of course it's angering. I'd be angry too if I had to put up with a lot of miscommunication and unmet needs. He's trying, but she's not giving him.

 

The way I put it is the way my grandmother used to put it: Fill a man's stomach and he'll give you all the time you need. If she kept the house clean in this case, he'd be more willing to listen. And if he did some romantic things for her, she'd be willing to listen. Right now, none of that is happening, especially from her end.

 

This isn't the words of an angry guy; I'm happy right now with my little lady. But this is the thoughts of a guy who's been on both ends of this. I can listen as much as I want, but if you don't help me by telling me what you need -- and in many cases, the women haven't sorted out these things in their own minds, much less can give a coherent list of their needs -- then I can't even try to meet them.

 

There's plenty of that miscommunication and lack of organized thought when it comes to needs in so many relationships. Which is a shame because you know what you need. And you should be able to tell him (or her).

 

And Lady Jane: You can love and cherish someone all you want. But at some point, it's got to be returned. If he's cherishing her as best as he can, but not good enough for her, then she needs to lay out why it isn't good enough. Or else he can't help make things better.

[mrmaximum]

Well said, as always!

 

I am astonished by the number of men who hate women so much, it almost makes me feel powerful (all women) if we can frighten the big beast that doesn't know how to be gentle to us.

 

You women haters should be gay. Too bad you like pussy.

 

This man may lack in the romance department, but he's picking up the slack in all other areas. If this situation was reversed you guys would be screaming bloody murder, but now he is the one with a boatload of work and you ladies are saying that he needs to 'reconnect with his wife to get her to do more"? They did the marital counseling thing in the past and then hashed out some ideas and he's doing what needs to be done. She on the other hand isn't and still isn't. But you are still crying the tune that it's his fault. If that is what you want, you don't want a man, you want a doormat. Is he at fault here, it's always a two way street and maybe there are a few things that he should change but this behavior is unnacceptable from her and there is no denying that!! As I said before, if this situation was reversed you wouldn't accept it and you would tell the woman in question so, why should he?

[Ladyjane14]

And Lady Jane: You can love and cherish someone all you want. But at some point, it's got to be returned. If he's cherishing her as best as he can, but not good enough for her, then she needs to lay out why it isn't good enough. Or else he can't help make things better.

 

All you can ever do, Seven, is what YOU are supposed to do. He signed on to love and cherish... he'd best get to lovin' and cherishin' then.

 

You know, it's hard to treat someone bad when they're good to you. If his feelings were genuine, chances are good she'd reciprocate in kind. If it's just a means to an end though... it's not gonna work. He can't be nice to her JUST for the sake of getting the dishes done. He has to be nice to her because he loves her and it pleases him to see her smile.

 

Every married partner is going to disappoint their spouse now and then. That's a given. But just because other people don't do what they have promised, doesn't negate the responsibilities that we, ourselves, have taken on. IOW, a childish argument like "she started it" doesn't wash for grown-up, married people.

 

Now realistically, this guy doesn't have a whole lot of choices. He can either fix what he has, leave it, or learn to live with the status quo. What he can't do is control his partner's behavior. He can only set the parameters which will allow her to make better choices.

 

I, for one, am NOT automatically 'buying in' on the idea that he's not spilling some of this venom over into the relationship. If you go back to page one, he's criticized nearly EVERY thing about her. Hell, if my husband didn't like ME... I wouldn't be cooking for him either, and he'd wash his own socks long before I'd ever do it. It's just THAT simple around here.

 

If our OP wanted a maid... he should have hired one. But if what he REALLY wanted was a wife, he needs to make sure he treats her in the EXACT way he expects his wife to be treated. And most men don't tolerate their wives being treated with less than 100% respect by other people.

 

If I were to be absolutely honest though, and just based on what I've read here... I think if anyone winds up playing the divorce card, there's a good possibility it's gonna be HER.

He hasn't spoken of her very respectfully here at LS. I have to doubt that his demeanor is much different at home.

[RecordProducer]

And RP and LJ advocate getting back to the basic and fundamentals of making love (as in outside the bedroom) and re-establishing the emotional connection ~ aka ~ why men don't get enough sex, and women don't get enough love. :love:

You know, Gunny bunny... you might be bitter as hell, but you're full of love, too... and you f*cking remind me of me in that respect!

p.s. You can tell the planets have aligned when RP and I are in agreement! Take it a run with it. It don't get weirder than that.

 

{RP}

Noooooo... I often agree with you (way more than you know), I just don't express it out loud. Maybe you don't agree with my comments as often, but that's OK. You're a smart woman with a deep mind and you definitely have your own style.

 

I estimate people by their independent ideas, not by how much they agree with mine.

 

So they both need to learn how to communicate on some sort of neutral terms: She needs to cut down the long stories and get to the quick. He needs to realize that she'll never be as succinct as he is, so give her more time to talk.

 

That's a great idea, but in practioce very hard to achieve. It's easier to find someone who is smiliar to you by default than compromise. She could have someone who doesn't care about the house and wants to yap with her about everything. And he could have a neat woman who does more and talks less.

 

This man may lack in the romance department, but he's picking up the slack in all other areas.

NO department can make up for the romance part!

 

ladies are saying that he needs to 'reconnect with his wife to get her to do more"?

We are not concentrating on his superficial goals to make her do more in the laundry room. Rather to make HIM do more in the marriage room.

 

he's doing what needs to be done.

If marriage consist of sharing the house chores, then yes, he does what needs to be done. But according to my expectations of marriage, that's all he does and that's not even 1% of LOVE. He seems to be forgetting taht a coiple is together out of love. And you, too.

 

She on the other hand isn't and still isn't. But you are still crying the tune that it's his fault.

She isn't doing the laundry so she deserves to be dumped by him? If he is considering dumping her because of THAT then she deserves better.

 

If that is what you want, you don't want a man, you want a doormat.

I want a romantic lover and I'd do anything for him. I don't need a cold-blooded machine to tell me what to do and criticize me about the laundry.

 

this behavior is unnacceptable from her

Unacceptible by him... or oyu... but by some of us HIS behavior is unacceptible.