Men don't need marriage!

[silktricks]

First - regarding feminism - Woggle, I've gotta agree with what you said. When feminism started out, it was supposedly a liberation of women AND men. What it turned into, however, was profoundly anti-male.

 

Women have gotten into a habit of believing that they are oppressed, because many years ago they (we) actually were. I well remember being told that it didn't matter that I did the exact same job as my co-worker. He was a man, therefore he would make more money. There were many problems with the way women were treated. I also remember being fired because I rejected the advances of my boss. The trouble is that those things have changed, but the attitude of many women has not. They still believe they are being victimized. Sometimes still believing themselves to be the victim while victimizing others. It's a problem.

 

Regarding divorce: Unfortunately, for a period of time (twenty years? maybe thirty? maybe forty?) it was a given that the woman would get the kids, the house, and most of the assets. Too often, a woman still believes that is her right upon divorce, and too often the man doesn't exercise his rights. The courts, however, fortunately no longer take the same view. Regardless of what a woman's lawyer says she'll get in the lead up to the divorce, the courts are each day becoming more fair to both parties.

[luvtoto]

But it's not your opinion that I'm calling you on. I'm calling you on fact. The fact is that you never went to court, you just settled. So: Is null and void, and not a good example.

Moose, who are you to say that my example is a good one or not?

 

The facts: My divorce happened 20 years ago. In a small rural, traditional town in Nebraska. If a mother was going to lose custody, she would have to be proved unfit by a court of law.

 

I wasn't an unfit mother in the eyes of the law. I was home everyday with her. I went to church. Held down various jobs in my day. Even had a couple college degrees.

 

There was never any discussion, after filing, that I wouldn't get custody. It was expected.

 

When I walked out on them, it shocked people. "That is not how we do things in this town! What is wrong with you?"

 

Now-a-days...I would NOT be so confident. Men have been exercising their rights more. It's about damn time.

 

Like I've said all along, men get the shaft in divorce.

[Gunny376]

Out of interest Gunny - would you ever consider getting married again? or is that it for you?

 

I only ask because this topic intrigues me in view of my current situation with my BF. He was with his ex wife for 13 years, married for 6, they had two children. She left him for a younger man, whom she now has a baby with. My BF busted his azz off during their marriage, working 16 hour days, bought her anything and everything she god damn wanted, provided for his children and was never unfaithful.

 

She turns around one day (whilst he is led underneath a digger, trying to fix it for one of his customers) and says "are you coming to my sisters babies christening this afternoon?" he says "If I can get this finished i'll be there with you" she says "Dont bother coming, in fact don't bother coming home at all" and that was that - they've been divorced for four years now. Same old story, he had to sell his house because the Child support agency screwed him for money to pay for his kids (even though one of them lives with him full time) she screwed him for pretty much everything he had blah blah blah

 

Anyways, he says he wouldn't ever consider getting married again because he feels like he worked his butt off for 13 years of his life for nothing. (bearing in mind he's still only 33 years old, and has enough time to do it all over again if he wanted). And do you know what, I don't blame him one little bit. It's a bit like getting your finger wet and sticking into an electric socket. Would you do it again?

 

 

I not going to say "never", but the last thing I'm looking for and have on my mind is finding another wife. Its been my experience that a lot of women in Western counteries are too needy, too selfish, too demanding, too insecure, too un-realistic, who can't be pacified, satisfied, happy, who think its the man's job to make them happy and satisfied. They're always complaining, never content with what they have, let alone thankful.

 

Too many women actually believe life is like it was in high school, that they've got the supply and men have the demand. News flash ~ not all men are sex obssessed. Too many women think they'v were born with everything they need to get through life with. A makeover, a Wonderbra, and a LBD = chi-ching!

 

It use to be a man that had a good job with good beneifits, made good money, was a good provider, didn't cheat, didn't beat his wife, didn't drink nor do drugs, didn't gamble, etc was considered a good husband. Nowdays, if a man doesn't act like he just meeet her, or if the woman just isn't "feeling" in love 24/7/365 ~ they want to bail on you, and take half your trash.

 

For most men to even think about get married, (excluding teenagers, and other young naive individuals) a man has got to bring A thorugh Z to the table or at least the propensity to do so ~ all some women think they've got to bring to the table is ~ sex. AS IF, the present value of "sex" is equal to the future value of time, effort, energy, and money invested into the marriage.

 

I've told my son, when he graduated out of HS, that what he should concentrate on is not getting married, nor even getting serious about a relationship. Rather to go out and find a job in a carrer field, learn his trade, become damn good at it, master it. Find him a plot of land, build him a house ~ like he wants it, furnish it like he wants it, get all of his boy-toys, and then look at settling down ~ maybe.

 

But, if it came to a split or divorce ~ everything he owned before the marriage would be his exclusively and would be his after the divorce. To never put her name on any title or deed to anything he owned before he got hitched. That way she would only be entitled to half of what they acquried after they got married.

 

Is that fair? Un-fair? TOUGH!

[Moose]

If a mother was going to lose custody, she would have to be proved unfit by a court of law.

Exactly! So when you say things like these:

1. When I was 20, I accidentally got pregnant by a guy that I was only dating for a few weeks.

 

2. All I wanted to do was *party-hardy*. I was no where near ready to be tied down. I even cheated on him (NOT a proud moment).

 

3. I only worked PT, as a bartender and worked late hours. My job gave me an outlet to party!

It make me wonder how you honestly don't think that the Court would find a person with this lifestyle fit to raise a child...

Moose, who are you to say that my example is a good one or not?

"Just the facts maam"

Like I've said all along, men get the shaft in divorce.

AND, like I've said all along, the men who do get the shaft most likely deserve it......

[Gunny376]

AND, like I've said all along, the men who do get the shaft most likely deserve it......

 

What women don't lie? Steal? Women are made of "sugar and spice, and everything nice?" Women don't do drugs? Women aren't acholoics? Women don't mentally, emotionally, phyically abuse, kill their husbands/SO? Women don't have mental problems? Women aren't psychotic, suffer from bi-polar disorder, OCD? Women don't cheat on their husbands? Women are incapable of being manipulative, deceitful, hateful, vindictive? Women are these innocent little defensless creatures that are used and abused ~ mistreated by men?

 

What planet do you live on? Venus?

[luvtoto]

Exactly! So when you say things like these:

It make me wonder how you honestly don't think that the Court would find a person with this lifestyle fit to raise a child

Moose, you are just trying to ring my bell.

 

There are a few things that could label you as an unfit mother... such as if you have to take a drug test and don't pass it, or are caught drinking and driving with your child in the car, or are abusive to the child, things like that.

 

I did absolutely none of those things.

 

In court, proving a mother to be unfit is VERY VERY hard. My EX would have to have SOLID UNDENIABLE PROOF in order for a judge to label me unfit.

 

If my ex just went into court and said, "well she did this and this.. and she's unfit because of this".. that won't cut it. The judge will most likely get annoyed with him more than anything for doing that.

 

I mean...look at Brittany & Kevin. The only way that Kevin would get a chance at getting custody of their kids is drug test Brittany's hair. That's why she shaved it off. Now, if she doesn't stay in rehab, he will most likely get full custody. But...we'll just have to pay attention to how that all plays out, won't we?

[Moose]

Moose, you are just trying to ring my bell.

No, I'm not...really....

In court, proving a mother to be unfit is VERY VERY hard. My EX would have to have SOLID UNDENIABLE PROOF in order for a judge to label me unfit.

YES! I agree! And this is exacly why I say when the men get the shaft, they deserve it! See....we're not too far off from seeing this in the same light!

If my ex just went into court and said, "well she did this and this.. and she's unfit because of this".. that won't cut it.

You're right....a smart man would have hard evidence....

The judge will most likely get annoyed with him more than anything for doing that.

And again, you're right! This is why a smart man would THINK like a judge months BEFORE walking into the court room.......

 

Men who get the shaft in divorce do so because they deserve it.

[luvtoto]

No, I'm not...really....

Really? Cause it feels like it.

 

a smart man would have hard evidence

A jilted ex's idea of hard evidence is not the same as what a judge would consider hard evidence.

 

Men who get the shaft in divorce do so because they deserve it.

Moose...seriously.

[Moose]

Moose...seriously.

Oh puhleeeze....if you can't see where I'm coming from, don't blame me.....

What women don't lie? Steal? Women are made of "sugar and spice, and everything nice?" Women don't do drugs? Women aren't acholoics? Women don't mentally, emotionally, phyically abuse, kill their husbands/SO? Women don't have mental problems? Women aren't psychotic, suffer from bi-polar disorder, OCD? Women don't cheat on their husbands? Women are incapable of being manipulative, deceitful, hateful, vindictive? Women are these innocent little defensless creatures that are used and abused ~ mistreated by men?

Gunny, that's my whole point....they DO do these things.....but if a man just sits idely by, without getting his ammunition together BEFORE battle, he deserves to be smoked.....why is this so friggin hard people>? It's not rocket science.....

[Gunny376]

Oh puhleeeze....if you can't see where I'm coming from, don't blame me.....Gunny, that's my whole point....they DO do these things.....but if a man just sits idely by, without getting his ammunition together BEFORE battle, he deserves to be smoked.....why is this so friggin hard people>? It's not rocket science.....

 

 

I see wherre coming from ~ now.

 

What you were implying was not I was infering?! Easy enough for your meaning to get tangled up in this medium of communication.

[Topper]

One of the Big Problems is You get blindsided. Since 90% of divorce is initiated by woman many of them start planning way in advance. In my case two years. yes we were having problems but I was not aware that she lining up lawyers and manipulating things for so long.

[Moose]

What you were implying was not I was infering?! Easy enough for your meaning to get tangled up in this medium of communication.

No worries...

[Scrivdog]

One of the Big Problems is You get blindsided. Since 90% of divorce is initiated by woman many of them start planning way in advance. In my case two years. yes we were having problems but I was not aware that she lining up lawyers and manipulating things for so long.

 

That's why the venerable and trusty keylogger is your friend.

[crazy_grl]

But, if it came to a split or divorce ~ everything he owned before the marriage would be his exclusively and would be his after the divorce. To never put her name on any title or deed to anything he owned before he got hitched. That way she would only be entitled to half of what they acquried after they got married.

 

Is that fair? Un-fair? TOUGH!

 

I don't get that. Why not buy the house with his wife? If she's paying for half the cost of the house and she's paying for half, if they split, they both get half. If a guy's worried she'll get more than half, there are contracts for that kind of thing.

 

I don't think I would marry someone who expected me to live in a house that was only his and only he paid for. First, it would feel like our relationship wasn't equal. Secondly, houses are pretty good investments in this area, and while I'm sure I could buy one and rent it out to tenants, I'd rather live in the one that I owned and chose for myself. I would like to have my own home to decorate, renovate, etc. If only my H owned the house I lived in, my time and effort would be wasted as there would be no ROI for me. If I did that for a house I rented out, I wouldn't get to enjoy the benefits of my work. Someone else would.

 

I think even if I owned my own house before I got married (which is a possibility), I would prefer to sell it and buy a new one with my H.

[Moose]

One of the Big Problems is You get blindsided. Since 90% of divorce is initiated by woman many of them start planning way in advance. In my case two years. yes we were having problems but I was not aware that she lining up lawyers and manipulating things for so long.

I agree. That's why I think us men need to be on top of our game 24/7. If we're not, we're just asking for it......

 

The very second you encounter a problem, (no matter HOW small us MEN think they are), document, document, document.....

[silktricks]

Since 90% of divorce is initiated by woman

 

Is this true? I'm not saying it's not, but where did you get the info?

 

But even if it is true, it doesn't imply that women get married so that they can get divorced and therefore "take the guy for his stuff". I really think a very small minority of women do things like that.

[alphamale]

Is this true? I'm not saying it's not, but where did you get the info?

actually I think its more like 75% but either way women still initiate the majority of divorces...

 

But even if it is true, it doesn't imply that women get married so that they can get divorced and therefore "take the guy for his stuff". I really think a very small minority of women do things like that.

whatever their motivation, the fact remains that woman initiate the majority of relationships and also end the majority of relationships.

[Topper]

I had a woman attorney I believe that statistic came from her. (90% might be high.) But she also told me that no matter how sweet she once was. In a divorce she would become the most greedy person whoever walked the earth. She was very right about that part.

[silktricks]

It's really a disturbing statistic for me. Maybe mostly because I'm not really surprised by it. This forum has been an eye-opener for me in the last year, and mostly what it has opened my eyes about I haven't liked. But, that's life, I guess.

 

So, do you think that the fact that women initiate divorce more often means that women have more illusions of what marriage should be then men do, then when their expectations are not met they leave? Or what?

[Moose]

This forum has been an eye-opener for me in the last year, and mostly what it has opened my eyes about I haven't liked. But, that's life, I guess.

Well, take 80% of what goes on here with a grain of salt. Folk come here with problems in their relationships. You'll rarely see people posting here about their happy relationships......ya know?

[silktricks]

Well, take 80% of what goes on here with a grain of salt. Folk come here with problems in their relationships. You'll rarely see people posting here about their happy relationships......ya know?

 

Right - altogether true. But that wasn't really meant about the eye-opener stuff.

 

I have been amazed at the level of selfishness shown by any number of people, even when they thought they were not being selfish - in fact often their most selfish acts they had somehow convinced themselves were generous and giving.

 

The amount of sadness has been - well - sad. But as you say, that's to be expected.

 

I had this really cockeyed underlying belief that if people could just SEE how much pain some of their actions created, that they'd change what they were doing. I was sorry to lose that particular illusion. But it was an illusion, and went to where all illusions, in the end, must go.

[Topper]

I do think that woman today have sold themselves on the Fairy tale. The Happy ever after and the new Fairy tail of "we can have it all"

I do think some woman are very justified in wanting out in cases of abuse and with a man who just can't keep his zipper up. The rest seem to just become very unhappy with their life. I might be prejudice here but seems to me they are unhappy with their life and take it out on their husband. He works too much he is never home. He does not work enough. There is to much money or not enough. It gets to the point, as a man you can never win. Woman want to be equal yet still treated special at the same time.

Take a look at some of the all time top chick flicks. Most are still on the Cinderella theam. A poor but good woman gets rescued by the Knight in shinning armor. Her life is transformed into something magic.

[luvtoto]

Oh puhleeeze....if you can't see where I'm coming from, don't blame me.....why is this so friggin hard people>? It's not rocket science.....

Moose, are we talking about two different things here??

 

My state does not allow "Fault" divorces. I have never witnessed one.

 

It's enough to declare that the couple cannot get along due to "irreconcilable differences".

 

Nothing more.

 

The courts here in Nebraska could care less about the details. Doesn't make a bit of difference anyways.

[alphamale]

I do think that woman today have sold themselves on the Fairy tale. The Happy ever after and the new Fairy tail of "we can have it all"

I was at this singles event last nite and talking with this cute blonde teacher who was 37, never married. She's looking for a husband to have kids with. She says to me "I know exactly what I'm looking for in a man!".... yeah and I thought, that's why you're still unmarried at 37.

 

It gets to the point, as a man you can never win. .

thats why from a man's point of view it may not be a good idea to get married nowadays. To quote from Star Trek....its the Kobyashi Maru scenario...you can't win.

[burning 4 revenge]

 

I soooooooo don't miss the midwest.

Illinois rules