Men don't need marriage!

[a4a]

Males are easy to demonize--especially as our culture becomes increasingly feminized. That "boys will be boys" is neither politically correct nor terribly fashionable especially among the effete, professional, chattering classes.

 

Marriage contributes to the unmanning of many a man. Whether it's because of his spouse's endless badgering, sheer bossiness or sexlessness, more and more men are saying "no" to Marriage.

 

If that makes these marital deserters less than "men" in the eyes of many, so be it. Often it takes much more courage to leave a bad marriage than to stay and slog through a dead relationship to the bitter end. Marriage legitimates. Divorce and being single is hard.

 

Saying this, I have no sympathy for men who abandon their families physically, emotionally or financially. Those guys are turds.

 

At the end of the day, I'm infinitely happier single in my little apartment than I was after more than 20 years of exile in my sub-zero marriage. It's great to finally come in from the cold.

 

I do not agree..... it is thought that a man becomes a man when he actually has his own family. From a society point.

 

I do agree that it certainly takes more balls to leave a unhappy and unfixable marriage.

 

As for boys will be boys...... well, Men should be men..... Boys should not get married and either should "girls".

 

And more people should say NO to marriage.... because it is obvious that 50% of them don't know what they hell they are doing after they do get married, nor did they choose the proper partner to start with.

[Moose]

And more people should say NO to marriage.... because it is obvious that 50% of them don't know what they hell they are doing after they do get married, nor did they choose the proper partner to start with

Eliminate divorce, and that 50% will disappear.......I'm willing to bet the farm on that one......

[a4a]

Eliminate divorce, and that 50% will disappear.......I'm willing to bet the farm on that one......

 

No more spouses would just be plotting to kill their spouses.

[CynicalP]

No more spouses would just be plotting to kill their spouses.

 

 

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. Prison guards would be the hottest job segment under a no divorce law.

[lonelybird]

Well the first step is not to change partners but find a way to get them to meet your needs. If you exhaust this and have tried 110% to get them to realize this then you should leave them.

 

You can grow spiritually through yourself..... no partner needed for that. At times I think we grow and learn more with the more partners we have had in life.

 

Love is selfish, you do not stay with someone unless they are providing you with something that you want. Fantasy unconditional love is not a reality...... you can love through obligation and guilt however. But then you are getting something as well..... relief from guilt.

The need to change their partner would do more harm than good. God created everyone of us differently. if one want to change the talents or special charactors of another that God created them to be, then another would grow resentment through time.

If we aim to "serve other", and to submit to each other like God commanded, the marriage would be more successful. Today's many marriages fail because people put focus on how to satisfy self rather than how to satisfy the other. In the honey moon stage it is easy, people try to do things for another, but after the chemical effect pass, people begin to focus self again. agony would follow, each side claim the other don't understand them. So people more need spiritual connection than other things in the marriage. and God can bring this spiritual connection which can bring you through thick and thin.

 

The rules of Kingdom of God is opposite of this world. This world is self serving, but Kingdom of God is other serving.

 

Obligation is a good thing. at the time 'the feeling' make us think we sacrifice a lot, but it pay back in a long term sense. "feeling" can be a big liar.

In a word, God know the best interests of mine and yours, but we don't know. the good thing is we can always trust on God, obey Him. and this would bring deep joy than flaky and temporary happiness

[Gunny376]

From another site:

 

Why men should not marry.

 

All the older guys I know, guys that are 55 and older are telling me the same story; don't do it. It just turns to crap no matter what you do. They'd rather be independent. At best it's a tedious bore. At worst a living hell with financial ruin thrown in for good measure. The problem is that when you're young, you just naturally fall into this mind set where your whole self image is based on how women regard you, and so you spend all your money and energy trying to make yourself acceptable to them. Then later in life the shine wears off and you finally realize that you've wasted yourself on a bunch of crap.

 

 

Children - "the ultimate human experience"

I couldn't even begin to list all of the older folks i know from work or through my family with kids they either don't get along with, are disappointed in, or are so distant as to not even be a factor in each other's lives.

 

I'm really skeptical about the idea of children as "the ultimate blessing." How many friends do you have with little or no meaningful contact or relationships with their parents?

 

I would wager the statistic for happy child/parent relations would be as bad, if not worse, than the marriage numbers. Who wants to deal with TWO bitter, unfulfilling relationships?!

 

Marriage is a sham for men. There is no benefit. If you are about to get married, think it over. Don't let your "privates" do your thinking for you. Don't let your punch-drunk I'm in love euphoria put you on auto-pilot. You will wake up in a hell of a hangover staring at this woman who will control your life.

A few years ago I went through a major depression over this until I started talking to all the older guys I knew...and they all said the same thing; "don't do it, it's s***. Even when it's not bad, it's s***". You end up being closely tied to an old woman. Think about that. I can go to Europe or the south seas tomorrow. If I was married I wouldn't have the money and I'd have to ask HER permission. Don't get married unless you are absolutely religiously in love with her. Like carry her sick aged body to the toilet and wipe her a** and be happy to do it kind of love.

What I'm saying is that human beings are nasty weak treacherous creatures that are for the most part totally untrustworthy. Experience is my basis for this statement, both mine and others who I know or who have written reliable histories. If you can find a woman to be your companion who is not treacherous, a deceitful little actress, a sly whore or a manipulative nag or a shrieking hag, then you are among the lucky few. Congratulations. I hope your luck continues to hold out.

Ok, assume that you will end up divorced and won't see your kids and lose half of your assets, how different is that from being married?

Most married guys I know are working their a***** off to pay bills, rarely to get to spend time with their families, mediocre or no sex life, and have wives that spend as much of their money as absolutely possible.

My problem with marriage isn't a fear of divorce; it is that the whole thing sucks divorce or not.

What security is there for men in marriage?

If I cheat on my wife, she gets half my s***.

If she cheats on me, she still gets half my s***.

Why the f*** should i get married?

F*** it man, it's easy to get depressed about not being married when we live in a society that constantly feeds us the image of the happy couple. It's one big lie. The happiest person alive is someone who isn't a prisoner dependent on another human being... We only have 80 or so years on this rock to achieve true freedom

Very few marriages last nowadays, and even guys older than me are telling me not to even think about it... It's a grossly overrated source of happiness. And for the 80% that do go through divorce, it will financially ruin you for life. Period. You can take your best 10 earning years from say, 35 to 45 and take all the wealth you would have accumulated and flush it down the toilet. Because it will go to her and her lawyer. If it happens naturally and it's good then great, good luck. But the worst thing is to force it, to make gross exertions and ignore all sorts of red lights going off just to be hooked up and "normal". Get some hobbies. Relax. Hang out. Enjoy. Take life as it comes.

As men, we all know that a woman's primary objective is to marry. After years of experience I've discovered their most commonly used strategy. here it is:

 

1. Girl pressures guy for marriage.

2. Guy delays.

3. Girl gradually starts destroying guy's self-esteem and eliminating his friends.

4. Guy becomes too weak and too much of a loser to find something better than what he has.

5. Girl starts to limit sex. In effect controlling the only good thing in the guy's life.

6. Guy is in despair. Capitulates to marriage.

Then 5-10 years later the guy is an empty shell of his former self. Girl is a ruthless manipulating machine. Girl divorces loser husband. Girl takes 80% of guy's stuff because the guy is too brain dead to find a good lawyer. Girl lives happily ever after. Guy becomes bald alcoholic who dies of heart attack at 45 years old.

[Gunny376]

I pulled the above from another site ~ (It gets much worse ~ trust me)

 

I cleaned it up as best I could, without watering it down too much ~ but this is how a lot of men feel about marriage these days.

 

And, the truth of the matter is?

 

I cheat on her ~ its my fault!

She's cheats on me ~ its my fault!

 

I cheats on her ~ she gets half my stuff!

She cheats on me ~ she gets half my stuff!

 

I've talked to a lot of older guys, (50's 60's 70's) and they've told me to the man ~ if you're single ~ stay single. The one's that are married all tell me they wished they weren't. The one's that are married all to the man have told me that if they ever get out of "this one" they'll never get into another one.

[Ripples]

Um, Gunny, I'm not disagreeing with you - I don't know enough about men to know whether marriage is a good thing for them or not I just wanted to say that for all the guys you know that don't want to be married, I probably know a guy who likes being married. Maybe it's an English thing!

[a4a]

The need to change their partner would do more harm than good. God created everyone of us differently. if one want to change the talents or special charactors of another that God created them to be, then another would grow resentment through time.

If we aim to "serve other", and to submit to each other like God commanded, the marriage would be more successful. Today's many marriages fail because people put focus on how to satisfy self rather than how to satisfy the other. In the honey moon stage it is easy, people try to do things for another, but after the chemical effect pass, people begin to focus self again. agony would follow, each side claim the other don't understand them. So people more need spiritual connection than other things in the marriage. and God can bring this spiritual connection which can bring you through thick and thin.

 

The rules of Kingdom of God is opposite of this world. This world is self serving, but Kingdom of God is other serving.

 

Obligation is a good thing. at the time 'the feeling' make us think we sacrifice a lot, but it pay back in a long term sense. "feeling" can be a big liar.

In a word, God know the best interests of mine and yours, but we don't know. the good thing is we can always trust on God, obey Him. and this would bring deep joy than flaky and temporary happiness

 

Well sounds like I need to become a nun and marry God.

 

You do not need to SUBMIT to a partner, that is crap. You need to compromise..... not submit. Negotiate, reach mutual decisions that benefits both parties.

 

Marriage was born as a business arrangement and it still is one.

 

And maybe some of the men here are forgetting that they also want marriage to keep their gf from going elsewhere.

 

Women are not desiring marriage as they did in the past. I am a example of that. I don't think anyone should be married until they are 35. Most do not have enough experience under their belt to even know who they are themselves until that point in their life. It is unfortunate that there are so many bitter people though. So many got married too young and/or for the wrong reasons. Or because religion itself said they should.

[MySugaree]

"Why men should not marry.

 

All the older guys I know, guys that are 55 and older are telling me the same story; don't do it. It just turns to crap no matter what you do. They'd rather be independent. At best it's a tedious bore. At worst a living hell with financial ruin thrown in for good measure. The problem is that when you're young, you just naturally fall into this mind set where your whole self image is based on how women regard you, and so you spend all your money and energy trying to make yourself acceptable to them. Then later in life the shine wears off and you finally realize that you've wasted yourself on a bunch of crap."

 

That's very interesting, Ginny. I do believe there's a big difference between mid-life divorces (50+) and "young" divorces (25-45). I separated and divorced at 54 (I'm now 56).In your younger days, one is most definitely more "other-directed". When you get older, and the marriage is more than 20 years old, it loses its shine. And, contrary to stereotypes, we mid-life males don't always leave for substantially younger women. I left for no woman, and I'm happily dating a 53 year old. (My ex is 49).

 

I remember an AARP Study done a couple years ago, which surveyed mid-life divorce in the USA. The group studied either separated or divorced between 40-60. Interestingly, women/wives initiated the great majority of divorces. Also, folks who divorced were substantially happier after about 2 years. This was after years of marital misery.

 

My experience pretty much tracks that study.

 

Where I part company with Ginny's web site posting is the bitter attitude towards the kids. You don't divorce your children regardless of their ages. You stay close by and remain emotionally and physically in their lives. I live .4 miles from my 17 year old son, who sees me every night, and we remain a significant presence in each other's life.He's over my place all the time. And I return to my marital home when my ex goes on lengthy business trips.Again, as every marriage is different so is every divorce.

 

If I had it to do over again, would I have married and raised a family? You betcha! It was the right thing to do at that time of my life.

 

So don't minimize age as a key variable in how one views marriage. Age matters.

[Scrivdog]

Hehheh .. You sound like those people that wave the bible while furiously yelling on the sidewalk or on the bus. You think maybe you can lighten up on the preaching there just a little bit?

 

 

The need to change their partner would do more harm than good. God created everyone of us differently. if one want to change the talents or special charactors of another that God created them to be, then another would grow resentment through time.

If we aim to "serve other", and to submit to each other like God commanded, the marriage would be more successful. Today's many marriages fail because people put focus on how to satisfy self rather than how to satisfy the other. In the honey moon stage it is easy, people try to do things for another, but after the chemical effect pass, people begin to focus self again. agony would follow, each side claim the other don't understand them. So people more need spiritual connection than other things in the marriage. and God can bring this spiritual connection which can bring you through thick and thin.

 

The rules of Kingdom of God is opposite of this world. This world is self serving, but Kingdom of God is other serving.

 

Obligation is a good thing. at the time 'the feeling' make us think we sacrifice a lot, but it pay back in a long term sense. "feeling" can be a big liar.

In a word, God know the best interests of mine and yours, but we don't know. the good thing is we can always trust on God, obey Him. and this would bring deep joy than flaky and temporary happiness

[Sevenmack]

Gunny376 wrote: After years of experience I've discovered their most commonly used strategy. here it is:

 

1. Girl pressures guy for marriage.

2. Guy delays.

3. Girl gradually starts destroying guy's self-esteem and eliminating his friends.

4. Guy becomes too weak and too much of a loser to find something better than what he has.

5. Girl starts to limit sex. In effect controlling the only good thing in the guy's life.

6. Guy is in despair. Capitulates to marriage.

 

I don't know about all that, at least from my experience. The lady in my life hasn't been pushing for marriage. Hell, we're still figuring out how to spend even more time together than we do and fit it into our busy schedules.

 

If the above list is the experience of so many men, one has to wonder why this is so? Could it be that so many men are pussies in the first place, lacking the backbone to push for a relationship that is a true companionship of equals? If only one person is the driving force in the relationship, then it's going to be a case of subjugation on the other's part. That's how it works in the jungle and that's how it works when it comes to humans. Which is why you need to be made of strong stuff in the first place.

[a4a]

Gunny376 wrote: After years of experience I've discovered their most commonly used strategy. here it is:

 

1. Girl pressures guy for marriage.

2. Guy delays.

3. Girl gradually starts destroying guy's self-esteem and eliminating his friends.

4. Guy becomes too weak and too much of a loser to find something better than what he has.

5. Girl starts to limit sex. In effect controlling the only good thing in the guy's life.

6. Guy is in despair. Capitulates to marriage.

 

I don't know about all that, at least from my experience. The lady in my life hasn't been pushing for marriage. Hell, we're still figuring out how to spend even more time together than we do and fit it into our busy schedules.

 

If the above list is the experience of so many men, one has to wonder why this is so? Could it be that so many men are pussies in the first place, lacking the backbone to push for a relationship that is a true companionship of equals? If only one person is the driving force in the relationship, then it's going to be a case of subjugation on the other's part. That's how it works in the jungle and that's how it works when it comes to humans. Which is why you need to be made of strong stuff in the first place.

 

Perhaps the thread title should be Most People are not Fit to be Married?

 

People don't even know who they are let alone are mature enough for marriage..... both men and women.

 

I see more and more women opting for single or shacking up. Not because they are bitter but they simply are not willing to settle for less because they have to. Maybe men are not settling as much either? Or maybe more women are rejecting them these days..so men are getting more bitter... now days a good provider does not make for an ideal husband, the requirements to wear the label "a catch" have gotten much more strict?

 

Some people stay in a M because they know they cannot do much better than what they have. :lmao:

[Sevenmack]

a4a writes: Perhaps the thread title should be Most People are not Fit to be Married?

 

I wouldn't say most. But many mena -- and women; know too many of them -- aren't made of the stuff required for marriage nor are they willing to work hard on the relationship or for that matter, on themselves. As a writer in the Midwest once wrote, you don't have to be jerk all your life; this also applies to being weak of will and lazy. But so many people don't want to put in the work required that they'll subsist on their woefully lacking personalities.

[alphamale]

1. Girl pressures guy for marriage.

2. Guy delays.

3. Girl gradually starts destroying guy's self-esteem and eliminating his friends.

4. Guy becomes too weak and too much of a loser to find something better than what he has.

5. Girl starts to limit sex. In effect controlling the only good thing in the guy's life.

6. Guy is in despair. Capitulates to marriage.

Then 5-10 years later the guy is an empty shell of his former self. Girl is a ruthless manipulating machine. Girl divorces loser husband. Girl takes 80% of guy's stuff because the guy is too brain dead to find a good lawyer. Girl lives happily ever after. Guy becomes bald alcoholic who dies of heart attack at 45 years old.

yes i would agree with this GUNNY. Except I'd modify #5 to say that "Girl starts to limit sex which sometimes isn't even that great anyways"

 

Man...this thread really took off. I didn't expect almost 300 posts

[Topper]

Nothing like taking on a sacred institution to start a great fire.

think about this it wasn't to many years ago that Woman were saying that marriage was just a way for men to enslave woman.

So is it ball busting woman making wiping boys of men?

Or is it control freak men turning woman into sex slaves?

[MySugaree]

Nothing like taking on a sacred institution to start a great fire.

think about this it wasn't to many years ago that Woman were saying that marriage was just a way for men to enslave woman.

So is it ball busting woman making wiping boys of men?

Or is it control freak men turning woman into sex slaves?

 

It's neither. But inflammatory topics like this lend themselves to broad generalizations (of which I've been guilty). Although if women did, in fact, become betrothed "sex slaves" would that lessen the anti-marriage hysteria?

 

I doubt it...

[a4a]

It's neither. But inflammatory topics like this lend themselves to broad generalizations (of which I've been guilty). Although if women did, in fact, become betrothed "sex slaves" would that lessen the anti-marriage hysteria?

 

I doubt it...

 

 

ahhhh at one time it was that way....... not so long ago. A husband had a right to rape his own wife.......or force her to have sex.

[MySugaree]

That's true. The law has only recently changed in many states: spousal rape is real and deserves to be criminalized.

 

I believe that spousal rape is permitted in many Islamic countries under Sharia.

 

My sister-in-law was raped repeatedly by her drunken good-for-nothing husband. Then one day, he went to work and she picked up the kids and left him.No one was there when he got home after work.

[Gunny376]

To be fair and balanced, women don't have it so cushed either

 

From the previous website:

 

I give birth to your kids and you complain we don't have sex? How do you think they were born, osmosis? Who takes care of them, drives them to school, picks them up for after school activities, drives them to sports, takes them to their friends houses, plays chauffeur, cleans, cooks, goes to PTA meetings and then caters to your sorry whiney ass when you get home. To top it off after you eat, fart or burp you walk out the door and go out with your buddies.

 

You want sex? Go **** yourself! I'm too tired.

[Gunny376]

If I've got to force myself on some woman to get it, not only do I not need it, I don't want it! There's too many other women out there in the world ~ and there's not a woman (nor man) walking the planet over worth going to prison nor killing over (to include oneself).

 

I was speaking to a bud the other day, and he was telling me his wife said something about "cutting him off" He told her, "You can't cut me off from sex, you can only cut me off from sex with you!" They've come to an understanding about the subject!

[Gunny376]

Nothing like taking on a sacred institution to start a great fire.

think about this it wasn't to many years ago that Woman were saying that marriage was just a way for men to enslave woman.

So is it ball busting woman making wiping boys of men?

Or is it control freak men turning woman into sex slaves?

 

It doesn't have to be either ~ and personally speaking ~ it never was that way for me ~ and never will be. I will never allow a woman to have that much power and control over me and my life again.

[Gunny376]

And now for (drum-roll, please) Post No. #300 on the subject

 

I see so many young men end up like this guy (again from the nomarriage.com)

 

We had one kid. Wife stays home, but the kid wears her out. I bust my ****** ASS 60 hrs/week and get no credit. Wife gives me guilt when I don't throw everything down right after work to watch this screaming, annoying kid so she can go out to the gym, or to some restaurant with her friends, or to her sister's house to watch movies.

 

 

She gets to take naps during the day when the baby sleeps, and every time I call her on the cell during the day, she is at Starbucks with her Mom or friends. She says that doesn't count as "Her time" because she's with the baby.

I've had enough. I feel so undervalued and OWNED. She is so 'entitled' now it's like 60 (or 70, or 80) hours a week from me is EXPECTED. Being at work from 8-7 counts as my 'social' time, so I am not allowed to have any friends or ever do ANYTHING outside of change diapers.

 

I'm with a4a, the reasons that so many marriages fail is that too many people are un-educated, ignorant, too immature, too self-centered, too selfish, all primarly because they're too young when they get married. Like the MTV show, "Underage, and engaged"

 

There's no freaking way that some sixteen or seventeen years old should be getting married. A couple of years past, they try to do too much, too soon, acquire too much~ too soon, acquire too much debt and easy credit, then there's too much water of bitterness and resentment under thr bridge, and they're wondering why they're divorcing down the pike.

 

IMHO, before anyone can get married they should be required to attend mandatory pre-martial couseling and classes as well as classes in personal finance.

 

Too many young girls and boys who think they're women and men ~ have too many un-realistic expectations as to what marriage is all about. They've not got a clue.

[Sevenmack]

Gunny376 said: I was speaking to a bud the other day, and he was telling me his wife said something about "cutting him off" He told her, "You can't cut me off from sex, you can only cut me off from sex with you!" They've come to an understanding about the subject!

 

I've heard women say that, using sex as a weapon -- as if it were all that effective in the first place. While a weak-willed man may bow to that for a while, he will eventually conclude that his desires and needs are more important than whatever the control freak wife is offering. And for the strong-willed men who know better? They just walk or remind her that using sex as a weapon is a no-go.

[Mustang Sally]

Personally, I'm coming to the realization that "romantic" marriage is really bullsh*t.

 

For both men AND women.

 

I am a self-sufficient, working mom of 4 married to a self-sufficient working dad of 4. After 13 yrs, he is my best friend, but the truth is: our marriage is now a financial relationship. It's like a business partnership. There's cordiality most of the time and some sex (though not that great, in my opinion) so it's a special kind of business relationship, granted, but the kids, mortgage, car payments, etc, etc, etc, have killed the romance LOOOOOOOONG ago.

 

We could both support ourselves (and kids) without the other, but it would be a messy process to get there from here, and society (and religion, if I'm being totally honest here) have put such a stigma on that where I live, that I am not up to taking it on right now. But I definitely see the validity of those who are making the point that this "sacred institution" is out of date and not applicable to much of our society now.

 

I'm with a4a, the reasons that so many marriages fail is that too many people are un-educated, ignorant, too immature, too self-centered, too selfish, all primarly because they're too young when they get married. Like the MTV show, "Underage, and engaged"

 

There's no freaking way that some sixteen or seventeen years old should be getting married. A couple of years past, they try to do too much, too soon, acquire too much~ too soon, acquire too much debt and easy credit, then there's too much water of bitterness and resentment under thr bridge, and they're wondering why they're divorcing down the pike.

 

IMHO, before anyone can get married they should be required to attend mandatory pre-martial couseling and classes as well as classes in personal finance.

 

Too many young girls and boys who think they're women and men ~ have too many un-realistic expectations as to what marriage is all about. They've not got a clue.

 

This is why I have pledged to do a better job of teaching my kids about the realities of marriage. I can't control what every Suzy and Bobby out there do, but I'll be damned if I'm going to feed my children a bunch of unrealistic Cinderella bullsh*t about what marriage is really all about.