What if we are BOTH abusive?

[Guest]

I'll start by giving a bit of background---I have been friends with my now fiance for a few years. There were times during the friendship where I stopped talking to him because he made me angry a few times, but overall he treated me like a princess.

 

I am no angel, but I truly feel that I am only bad when provoked. For example, what do you do when your boyfriend insinuates that you're a whore? Well, I personally smacked him. (It was a discussion about us getting engaged, and the ring and he said something about me being "for sale").

 

That's just a small example.

 

I know the textbook pattern of abuse. They make you think you are the bad one. I KNOW I am not perfect, but I think he is worse. He refuses to talk things out when he is upset, and most of the time he does what I am asking only to later say that it was all "forced" unless he totally rebels (nothing crazy like going to strip clubs, or any type of club)Maybe I need an outside perspective.

[TooTruthful]

Ok, I forgot to add something in there. I feel like he uses my emotions to control me. For example:He knows I get upset if he tries to leave, and always tthreatens/tries to leave or tell me he is not coming home. This is often in response to me asking innocent questions such as "where does your friend live" (if he is dropping them off just so I can get a time to expect him by). He will turn it around and tell me I am trying to get him to not take his friend home and gets angry. I see it as paranoia. He usually stays but I confess to having stood in front of the door to stop him. One night when I was drunk it got physical.

 

Also, he compares his anger over little things I say and do to my tears, and when he is angry he tells me he does not care about my school, which I feel is the truth because if he sees the woman he is supposed to love in pain and tears he would stop his "vindictive out of self-defense" behavior if he cared, right?

[Raleuse]

I've been wondering myself. Have done a lot of research lately as I was trying to understand the twisted relationship I am in (one-way love) and in all the relationships I know or have experienced, it seems a lot of people are abusive to each other - either controlling or jealous or teasing to the verge of abuse - but it's often a ball game rather only one who has personality issues. I'm more like your fiance - I do whatever my friend asks - out of love but also because I can't stand confrontations - until I feel disrespected. The problem is, outside relationships I am an independent woman so why the heck can't I simply say no to things I don't feel are right? It usually ends with my picking up on the smallest thing and making a scene, which my friends blows out of proportion as he can't stand being accused of anything and we end up in major raws... So childish (I'm in my 30s)!

 

I too have read the pattern of abuse and altho my friend is continuously teasing (after all it's easy when someone you just like adores you) and pushing my buttons and also very controlling, I'm the jealous one, manipulating him in not seeing other girls (it's not conscious but I do manage to make him feel guilty, and he's been going mad as he can sense I'm pulling strings).

[MoonGirl]

Hi gals,

 

It is VERY common for a victim of abuse to become abusive herself, both verbally and physically. It is a defense mechanism. But there are women who ARE abusive (not just as a response to abuse) and need help overcoming their behavior.

 

Think about what occurs before you get to the point of being abusive. It is not appropriate for a boyfriend to call his gf a whore. That can insight some serious emotions. But your best bet is to turn around and leave instead of smacking him. You choose to be physically abusive after he has been verbally abusive. Not good.

 

Your relationship is not healthy. You don't deserve to be abused, and you need to think about the things you say and do that are abusive and put a stop to them. Why would you want to live this way?

[kitten chick]

Oooooh I know the answer to this one!

 

You end up on Cops

[Jinxx]

Oooooh I know the answer to this one!

 

You end up on Cops

 

Or one of you will end up six feet under.

[TooTruthful]

I don't want to be in a relationship like this. I am a strong woman, and I don't know how this can happen! I went through sexual abuse, survived the death of loved ones and my first relationship with a man that was 10 years older than me (I was 16).

 

I get with this guy who is my friend for so many years and I am thinking how can THIS go wrong. Somehow it does!!!

 

I don't know how much longer I can try to talk to him, and try to make him see that he has some temper issues...before I just toss any feelings I have for him aside and just LEAVE. Well, I'd have to kick him out.

 

I know I shouldn't have smacked him...but I'm sorry it's a freaken reflex when I'm spoken to like that!!! I don't even realize I'm doing it. Once a guy kissed me without even waiting for the signal. I mean it was just out of nowhere, and he got a fat lip. I just do it when COMPLETELY disrespected and violated.

[MoonGirl]

I don't want to be in a relationship like this. I am a strong woman, and I don't know how this can happen! I went through sexual abuse, survived the death of loved ones and my first relationship with a man that was 10 years older than me (I was 16).

 

I get with this guy who is my friend for so many years and I am thinking how can THIS go wrong. Somehow it does!!!

 

I don't know how much longer I can try to talk to him, and try to make him see that he has some temper issues...before I just toss any feelings I have for him aside and just LEAVE. Well, I'd have to kick him out.

 

I know I shouldn't have smacked him...but I'm sorry it's a freaken reflex when I'm spoken to like that!!! I don't even realize I'm doing it. Once a guy kissed me without even waiting for the signal. I mean it was just out of nowhere, and he got a fat lip. I just do it when COMPLETELY disrespected and violated.

 

 

Don't wait around for this guy to change. My abusive husband was someone I had known since I was a teenager...just because you were friends first doesn't make his abuse any better. Abusers typically don't change. They can't understand why their actions/words are so hurtful and they can't understand the pain they inflict. They tend to blame their victims for everything and are only concerned with their own well-being.

 

If you want more information about verbal abusers and the effects of verbal abuse, pick up one of Patricia Evan's books.

 

Listen, don't allow someone to disrespect you. Simply WALK AWAY. There is no need to take abuse, and no need to dish it back to your abuser.

[TooTruthful]

Did you see any signs of his abusive ways when you were kids? I saw some, but in my head the women were bad and he was just not taking it. Maybe a little over the top with it, but it wasn't like they were GOOD girls and he was just kicking puppies. Let me clarify:

 

Usually the type of woman he was been with were not good people. I'm talking married already, with kids, with a boyfriend/husband in jail, having boyfriends already that they left to be with him, on welfare with no plans to get a real education...just very "street". I keep thinking he just needs some de-programming to stop being that way, to stop thinking all women are the same. I always used to joke that if we ever got together he would get his revenge on me, beacuse of the way I rejected him so many times. Looks like I jinxed myself.

 

I remember the first time he made me cry when we were together. He still lived at his mothers, and I had decided to cook for him. I asked if his mother was cooking and he said yes. I said "don't eat, I'm cooking for you!" not thinking at ALL that this was a bad thing. So he said: "hell no, my mother's cooking is AMAZING!"Which I heard as "your cooking sucks" so I respond ok, so I will never cook anything for you ever again! Maybe I overreacted, but I was just so hurt that my first attempt to cook a meal for him was just tossed aside like it was nothing. It had been YEARS since I cooked for a man and I was just so hurt, it was like a slap in the face.

 

Then he comes out with "you know as a woman if you don't cook you're worthless". WTF? I guess my education, resume, personality, slamming body & face, morals etc. don't count if I am not playing chef? Please. He's so used to being catered to like he's king by his mother...which I suspect she did just because he kept a steady cashflow coming.

 

Anyway, then he acted like it was no big deal if he didn't see me that night and I was hurt that he could go from acting like seeing me was the best thing in the world to "hmm, I can take it or leave it" so quickly. He brought me my favorite flowers and my favorite wine that night, but obviously...an elephant never forgets. No matter the gesture to make it up I cant forget the tears especially if they just keep coming.

 

Sigh. I just want to let this out.

[Raleuse]

They can't understand why their actions/words are so hurtful and they can't understand the pain they inflict. They tend to blame their victims for everything and are only concerned with their own well-being.

 

Hi Moongirl, I know your advice is that given pretty much by everyone but if those people are so unaware, don't they need help as much as the victims? Isn't it possible to just detach yourself enough not to be harmed (am not talking physical abuse here obviously) but still be there for them? I know typical reaction... but it's tearing me apart.

[MoonGirl]

Hi Moongirl, I know your advice is that given pretty much by everyone but if those people are so unaware, don't they need help as much as the victims? Isn't it possible to just detach yourself enough not to be harmed (am not talking physical abuse here obviously) but still be there for them? I know typical reaction... but it's tearing me apart.

 

No, you do not need to help your abuser. You can NOT help an abuser unless he is willing to seek help. And before he seeks help, he needs to understand he has a problem. Even then, the recovery period can last years, a lifetime, forever. It's like dating an alcoholic or drug addict. When stress arises, you'll never know how an abuser is going to react. Typically, over time, the abuse gets worse. Especially after the abuser has a serious hold on you - after marriage, pregnancy, children. It is NOT an enjoyable life to live. Eventually, you will become tired, so exhausted, emotionally drained, and depressed.

 

You're lucky you're not married to this guy and you don't have any kids! Just leave. If you stick around, even just as a friend, he will suck you back in over and over again. It is NOT your responsibility to nurture him or heal him. If it makes you feel better, write him a letter. Tell him what you've seen, what you think, and suggest that he get some help. Then change your locks and phone number.

 

Don't allow someone to treat you like a doormat. If it's this bad now, how do you think it will be 5 years from now?

[CardPlay3r]

Hi Moongirl, I know your advice is that given pretty much by everyone but if those people are so unaware, don't they need help as much as the victims?

 

Like MG said they have to want to get help and realize there is something very wrong with them...and even if that unlikely thing happens they have to go it alone at counseling etc. trying to help themselves because it's an addiction for them too, they're too used to 'owning' someone and constantly put them down to change that while they're still with them.

 

Do not try and invent the wheel here, the psychology of abuse is well documented and the only solution is to leave them. I've read hundreds of stories on it and not in any one of them did things get better while they stayed together, only worse.

 

Isn't it possible to just detach yourself enough not to be harmed (am not talking physical abuse here obviously) but still be there for them? I know typical reaction... but it's tearing me apart.

 

Well the whole reason for why it works is because the victim loves the abuser too much to leave, if there was no attachment noone would let people hit them ruin their self esteem etc.. It creates an addiction of sorts which you're proving by asking that question, I mean if someone on the street punches you grabs your purse and runs you wouldn't want to "be there" for them would you

 

Just leave while you can, before you get so attached and addicted you won't be able to

[TooTruthful]

You guys are being helpful and insightful.

 

He mentioned the other day going to anger management, and on his own, he brought up couples counseling a month or 2 ago. He works so hard (getting up at 3AM to be to work at 5) and I am bogged down by this intensive graduate program, so we haven't had time.

 

We will make time though. I hope I don't frustrate those that are telling me to leave him, but at least he is willing, on his own to consider therapy. It cannot go on for much longer though, and I AM strong enough to leave if we are going to therapy and he is still bringing me to tears every other day.

[TooTruthful]

I posted a comment a few days ago, I don't know what happened to it. Also, why am I "unconfirmed"?

 

Anyway, my last post was basically thanking those that are giving me what is probably the best advice that unfortunately I am going to hesitate taking. On his own, he has brought up counseling but with him waking up at 3AM to work like a horse all day and me in this intensive graduate program we haven't had the time to really research setting up an initial visit. He even mentioned anger management on his own last week.

 

I will tell you all this much, I am DEFINTELY not going to put up with crying even 2x a week for much longer.

[CardPlay3r]

Well abuse comes in cycles, nasty one week wonderful the next week offering to go to counseling etc. I'd say take that with a big grain of salt, as quite often they say anything to prevent you from leaving....

 

I hope you're serious about not taking it if he does it again.

[TooTruthful]

I am not going to deal with much more, I tell you that. It's been getting better. He I think is realizing that he can't deal with things the way he has been. I know couples get into arguments, ok, that's fine. BUt it was just getting too crazy. He didn't really bring it up trying to get me to forgive him, so maybe that's a good sign.

[MoonGirl]

TT,

 

Be careful...abusers do not change over night and without a huge amount of therapy and work on their own. They can adapt to meet your needs for a short period of time, but will return to being abusive once they feel you've let your guard down or when you are trapped (i.e. married and/or pregnant).

 

If I had to do it all over again...and, really I do now that I am on my own again, I would NEVER stay with someone who is even slightly abusive...it only gets worse with time.