Dated briefly then 7 years as best friends. Suddenly heartbroken.

[tinyrobotman]

Ok, here we go ... I met a women through online dating over 7 years ago. We dated casually for around a year, but I was less than a year out of a terrible breakup with my long term partner and I suspect I wasn't really ready for a relationship. Also I found her kind of boring because she was reserved, introspective and didn't like to go on trips and while my ex was a wild bundle of chaos and adventure (good and bad). Also, the sex was so-so compared to the wild passion I had with my ex. After a year our relationship sort of fizzled out. I remember telling her "We haven't told each other we loved each other all this time, probably best to call this off".

 

However during that time we ended up as neighbors in the same building. We continued to hang out as friends and struck up a great friendship. We talked about everything, went out to many fancy dinners several nights a week (we'd split the bill, we're both pretty well off), went to concerts and rode bikes together as friends and neighbors. We both dated and would always get together to bitch about our dates.

 

Slowly we became best friends as we were there for each other through thick and thin, deaths and job changes and every decision in life and inside joke. The women I thought was boring kept getting more and more interesting to me over the years but I never felt like she was the right partner for me.

 

Three years ago after my mom's passing my best friend and I went on a trip to spread her ashes on a mountain top. The minute we spread her ashes the sky opened up in a tremendous thunder and lightning storm. We were literally running for our lives for miles to the car with lightning and torrential rain. I have a lot of experience in the mountains and I'm not kidding when I say it was one of the closest experiencing to death that I've had. All I wanted in that moment was to protect my best friend and get her off the mountain alive. That day was one of the most intense experiences of our lives. That night we both slept together cuddling all night. Nothing happened but I believe something shifted with me that day toward my friend.

 

We text everyday and spend around 3 nights a week with each other but it never felt needy or like I had to see her always. Even though we would date others, time with her felt so comfortable. Then a few weeks ago she was contacted by someone she knew out of state. They hit it off online and he recently flew out to visit and the completely clicked. She's already talking about moving out there after they do a bit of long distance dating.

 

All of a sudden I was crushed. Like the heart being ripped out feeling I get during a breakup with someone I love. It was a shock because I thought I was single, which should mean I can't feel heartbroken! I realized I have fallen in love with my best friend and have probably been in love with her for several years but it was sort of under the surface. I told her how I felt and as expected she said she didn't feel the same way about me.

 

I'm just crushed and hopeless. I don't think it's just the hurt talking but I can't think of one practical reason her and I wouldn't be amazing partners. We both know each other better than anyone else in the world. We're both at the same point in life, have the same goals, are aligned on values, children (no!) and how we like to keep our homes (we're very particular), how we solve problems and are completely comfortable around each other. We've even talked about buying real estate together to build a house with two "wings". We're both the same level of attractiveness, intelligence and wealth so I'm not pining over someone out of my league. The only problem is ... she doesn't love me and she can't say why.

 

I just want to understand why the person I'm most connected to in the world doesn't want me. This isn't some college crush or someone I barely know. I'm completely heartbroken, spend all day in bed and don't know how to move on from this. I've gone no contact because seeing her hurts and she really doesn't seem to understand how much. I want my best friend back too.

Edited February 18, 2018 by tinyrobotman

[anika99]

I'm so sorry you are hurting but the one reason you two wouldn't be amazing together is because she does not have romantic feelings for you. Similar goals, values, comfort, don't matter at all when the romantic feelings are not there. It's as simple as that.

[maxi105]

hello t/r/m.

 

sorry to hear of your tough time, the love you have for this girl in your post comes over so heartfelt so it must be hard for you right now. hhmmm...I don't think there is too too much I can say that is going to really help as even what I can offer you will know already, but as your posting for thoughts I thought why not add my bit too,

 

you sound like a someone who has been made to rethink about this girl when maybe you didn't see her potential (but I'm not sure it was that you didn't see her potential, I suspect it was because it wasn't what you felt or wanted) and so it didn't work; and as a result of hindsight sadly this is one of those situations you are best to just let it run its course until things are less raw. time is the biggest thing that will help you in this situation and of course letting your emotions come through naturally.

 

I know you want answers, but I'm not sure at this time they will make you feel any better as I think if she does open up to you it will keep you in a mental loop of thinking about her (and that will make your no contact seem harder as you will be thinking so deeply).

 

also if she does talk about things as you hope for , even if she tries to put things sensitively to spare your feelings, I feel it will hurt you just knowing more and of course it will probably also mean that in order to explain how she feels she will end up talking about this other man which you won't want to really hear !!!

 

you sound like a good person, so whatever has happened is not a reflection on you. it's about what she has thought about properly and feels will now make her happy in her heart. it's what she needs.

if you wish to show her you are her best friend (or can be later on ) then it's about letting her go and accepting her choices..

 

it's really tough for you that is clear, but even if she were to try to cut out her feelings and gave you another chance got with you she would only yearn for something else and you would be just as unhappy sooner or later.

 

it isn't the outcome you'd hoped for, but at least she has been honest with you.

 

the best I can say is be grateful for the good times you did have with her, treasure that and be glad you did get a change with her (not everyone who loves another person gets that chance).

 

but realistically, I think that the fact that things went the way they did was a sign that the perfect match (even in the early days) was not as steady enough a match to keep things alive, but look - I'm sure when enough time has passed by you will get through and when you've accepted things and moved on you'll attract someone new who can give back the deep loving feeling you have felt and she will be able to give it right back to you and make you happy.

 

VERY BEST WISHES, take care of yourself and give yourself time. give yourself a little loving right now and look to the changing seasons to embrace the strength of the lighter days and warmth, that will also help to heal your soul.

 

one day at a time is all you or anyone in this situation can do.

 

referring to your best friend....I think you will get your best friend back. but it will be a best friend. keep strong there is another lady out there that will be a better match even though your heart wants something else. maxi.

[tinyrobotman]

Maxi,

 

Thanks for the kind reply. You've restored my faith in the internet. Nothing like an 11 hour drive today alone with my thoughts in the high desert to clear the mind or maybe not. Thoughts were all over the place between "I hate her", "I'll never speak to her again", "I just want to get back to being friends", "it could be so perfect if she'd just give dating me again a chance" to "wow I blew it 6 years ago" to "I'm better off and will find someone better". Ugh.

 

I guess my feeling about knowing why is that even if it's painful to hear I can at least put the speculation about why to rest and hopefully accept her reason as fact. Some of it I believe is that when she stops dating someone her mind just puts up a wall to that being possible ever again. She's can be very rigid. Also I believe that I may not have some of the external traits she believes she wants such as always being funny and being "deep" or romantic. (this guy is all of those things and she's very excited about that). This is all speculation but if she told me things like this honestly I feel it would be easier and less hurtful than "I don't know".

 

Part of me also thinks she doesn't become attached to people the way I do. It's very easy for her to pickup stakes for something new in a lot of areas of life. She grew up in an abusive home and her father is a genuine narcissistic psychopath. Maybe that has lead to attachment problems. For me spending a lot of quality time around someone I care about naturally leads to love and attachment. For her I think love is something that has to start with external things like the other person being funny or romantic. Unfortunately I think what makes a good long term relationship are the qualities that you discover later such as trust, patients and caring.

 

Back when my friend and I stopped dating I had the attitude that I really needed someone who matched my activities (which tend to border on a lifestyle), when really those aren't as important I should have been looking for someone who shared my goals, values and preferences like my friend does. My ex and I shared a lot of activities but her and I didn't share values to the point that it made a disaster of my life that took years to clean up. It's too bad I didn't learn that lesson earlier when I was actually dating my best friend and I would likely have pursued her more aggressively maybe with different results.

 

One day at a time I suppose and writing this out seems to help ... Just want the hurt to stop.

Edited February 19, 2018 by tinyrobotman

[healing light]

Sorry to hear. I suspect that she may have harbored feelings for you for a while, but don't think you can expect that she drop a man she's interested in now when it took you seven years to realize what she meant to you. I think you friend-zoned yourself by not acting sooner with clear interest before another man stepped in.

 

I don't even believe that you don't have a chance with her in the future, but right now I would take her words at face value and attempt to move on. I would not try to be "best friends" with her while you're healing, as your motivations won't be pure and you'll just be setting yourself up for torture.

 

Good luck, I know it's painful.

[tinyrobotman]

Thanks for the reply healing_light. "Friend-zoned myself" made me laugh just a little. Yes I did indeed. I ended our dating relationship six years ago, although I think it was pretty mutual at that point. Probably why were able to quickly become friends afterwards.

 

Unfortunately none of this is reasonable because none of this has to do with our heads. If it did then either she would consider me a possibility or I'd be able to just go back to being friends. Nothing has changed about who she is in those seven years since when I didn't consider her a good potential partner, in fact some of her flaws have become more pronounced. What has changed over many years is my feelings about her. I suspect I just spent too much time with her and became too invested. I'd be so happy if I could just reset myself back to where I was when we were just friends but I don't know if I can.

 

I think the rejection is the hardest thing to take. It feels like this guy is just jumping in and stealing her away with so little effort. I've been there through thick and thin and we've developed all this amazing history together and all of sudden she's talking about dropping everything and moving out of state (to a place she doesn't want to live) to be with this guy she barely knows. To make matters worse when he was out to visit she did all her and I's favorite things to do together, except with him it was all so much fun (ugh). She seemed surprised that all of this hurt me and that I feel rejected. I just want to know why she seems not even remotely consider me as a possibility.

 

Part of me doesn't even want to try and be friends with her anymore. I just can't even imagine not feeling hurt by her at this point.

[preraph]

It usually comes down to sexual attraction. But also, the other thing is women have a hard time after being friends with a guy like they're a girlfriend to develop sexual attraction for them. I mean, by that time, you're like a brother to her. So even if there was sexual attraction at first, a year or two of friendship will usually dispel that, much like it often dispels it during marriage! Familiarity isn't necessarily sexy.

[tinyrobotman]

preraph, I suspect you're exactly right. I wasn't that attracted too her when we were dating which probably set the tone for things to come. This is all sort of a new experience for me where I've developed an attraction to someone over a long time that grew with familiarity. Also, my experience with my ex (previous to this women) the sex remained crazy hot for nine years until the end of the relationship (which probably caused me to overlook a lot problems with the relationship until it finally blew up, but that's another story) so I guess I didn't really understand the waning interest over time issue. It's so hard to accept that there's just nothing to be done at this point except no contact until some undetermined date in the future. Do you think that women ever can reverse those "like a brother" familiarity feelings or once those are set they're set?

[maxi105]

hi tiny robot man,

 

well your spirit aint tiny that's for sure, what comes across is a huge huge heart and a kind caring one too.

 

Thank you so much for your kind reply too. you have also HONESTLY restored my faith in my replies to people on the shack (I mean that sincerely), it isn't the easiest reply to give and I would have dearly loved to give you more hope; but I have been and am always honest; I judged your post and felt that you would use it constructively and you have proved me right; you are a genuine guy and I felt that you were able to really see what was being said without taking it as an attack.

 

it sounds like that you are already meeting the healthy but very hard way of grieving the relationship so just go with the tears, remorse, hating her wanting her feeling lost etc, as it will help you that bit quicker to acknowledge different feelings and heal properly so in time you are free to feel less pain and rawness.

 

it's ok to feel all you are right now, you have a wealth of really admirable qualities and I'm sure you are doing all you can to meet them whilst juggling living life too as best you can. your post and honesty is touching and really refreshing.

 

just remember whatever happens this won't be the end, I do believe you can in time ease your heart and if she is willing in time then I don't see why a friendship cannot happen.

 

but you know sometimes it takes things like this to let things shape you (and maybe particularly her) and there is no telling what the future for you will be. but believe me when I say that you are on the right track with all of this, you gotta let someone out to heal properly before you can be strong and objective and balanced in emotion and rationale to have the strength and distance and separation to let her back in as a friend in time.

 

I think there is every chance you can have a good friendship again but only when you feel as healed and as emotionally levelled as before you met her, but if in time you still want to keep friendship then sure you can, but the priority should be taking care of your own heart right now.

 

what you have to remember is that friendship aimed for before you are strong enough to deal with it will also hurt as she will be with him and that means talking about him, maybe sometimes wanting to be in places where you as a friend may see them together, so if you want that make sure you can be in their company or be moved on mentally enough to be able to hear about their news etc..

 

but you will heal and maybe it might do you good to meet someone new when you are fully healed as I feel it could help you get some of the feelings you have about her shelved and shifted.

 

just hold on to the great values you do have as I feel they will serve you well when the time comes and I think you will find true happiness and a more compatible love match.

I think when you meet someone new even though it must feel like you won't or don't want to right now, I think that you will open up and share and be able to feel the shared feelings of love and deep affection return back to you by someone who just understands - rather than you having to explain or feel frustrated that you'd like someone to be a certain way but they are not).

 

you are a special guy and you deserve a really special partner. if in the future anything happens between you both then good luck, but for now, work on your healing to get your old you back and I believe you will find the balance and happiness and kindness you have shown (all be it a bit too late for things to have worked out) but you found something within yourself none the less - so build on that and take your new insights to the next relationship and I feel you will get that share values, shared lifestyle thing that you were really hoping for but never quite managed to get.

 

and look on the bright side, if this lady was what you initially thought a little bit dull for you, then maybe had you married you might have found that that side would have never really met your true hopes and needs of adventure.

 

who knows if you meet another in time, then maybe you may strengthen your heart as well as a renewed friendship with this lady.

 

VERY BEST WISHES, you have not only shared your story, but you have given something back by your honesty.

 

each day as it is, the warmth of spring and the freedom of summer will see you driving through the dessert music up healing and reflecting (and maybe with someone new in toe) but as is often the case, only time can tell what the future holds, but i reckon your gonna be alright...in time.

 

thank you for taking the time, i hope you get what you deserve ....something good. XX maxi.

[tinyrobotman]

Progressing one day at a time. Just over two weeks of no contact and thankfully an awesome road trip with friends last week. Last night I read a great book called "How To Get Out of the Friendzone" by The Wing Girls. It's a funny and entertaining read, but more than anything it really made me think about how far into the friendzone I've been without even really knowing it. As I said before I'm someone who has to understand the truth and facts of something before I can move on from it.

 

I know some people dislike the term "friendzone", but I believe it's actually a pretty useful term. First the friendzone isn't a place someone puts you in but where you choose to wander into and stay in. I think I ended up here with my best friend because I didn't choose to pursue her when she actually had feelings for me 6 or 7 years ago. Then I think we actually went through a period of several years of being genuine platonic friends and neighbors. Then as we spent more and more time together that familiarity killed any and all feelings she may have had toward me. Something I didn't understand was that familiarity (especially for women) can actually lead to un-attraction (that like a brother thing) and someone taking you for granted. She has a great deal of affection for me but no longer any attraction. Somehow I had the opposite experience where I originally didn't have a lot of attraction for her and developed attraction the more time we spent together. Ugh, what a mess.

 

I believe I've been carrying around this unrequited attraction for maybe the last three years. I got into that place where I would always be up for coming over and hanging out with her, going with her to concerts and dinner, helping her with things and listening to her problems. From her point of view she had a hang out buddy anytime she wanted (she doesn't have a large social circle) and for me I got to be close to her and feel like I had a girlfriend. It always felt good to be out to dinner with a pretty girl who I connected with and would look into my eyes, twirl her hair and laugh at my jokes. I'd guess anyone would have assumed we were a couple. Problem is the whole things has been a lie on my part, both to her and myself. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt it's actually located deep in the Friendzone.

 

The book had some great advice about attraction and getting out of or never wandering into the friendzone (never ever settle for a fake relationship, don't make yourself over available and be assertive about what you want!). I'm realistic about the low chances of this women ever changing her mind about me but the solution to that is the same as the one that will allow me to move on as well and that is no contact. Even if things don't work out between her and this other guy (there are plenty of red flags and hurdles already. However that could take months or even years to play out. She's deep into infatuation since he plays the attraction game well) she has to miss me and see me in a completely different light, which is only possible if I'm not around.

 

Funny thing is if this guy hadn't come along this probably could have gone on indefinitely. This event has been a spark to make some other decisions in my life independent of her opinion (we always would consult each other when making even the smallest decision) which is sort of exciting. I've also learned that I probably shouldn't ever become such close friends with someone of the opposite sex. I have plenty of female friends but they're not what I'd call best friends. I've even thought of a couple situations where I've been (or maybe even still am ) on the other side of the friendzone where I really should have set boundaries for their sake.

 

It's a hard to not want to go to my friend and tell her "I know what happened! I know why you aren't attracted to me and can't say why!" as if she'd suddenly see the logic of the problem. Unfortunately that's not the way it works. I still miss her tremendously and wish things were different. I still cry if I look at a picture of her and I together and have trouble facing the day most days but I feel like there's a little glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited March 1, 2018 by tinyrobotman

[tinyrobotman]

One questions I do have is should I talk to her at some point and at what point should that be? After I confessed to her we left it that I was taking some time apart from her. Does that mean I go until I no longer have feelings for her (that could be forever or until I'm in a real relationship who knows) or should I talk to her again and explain where I'm at with things sooner than that? We really have been best friends for years and years so just ghosting her seems kind of awful but I need to not be drawn back into the friendzone.

[LoverOfDance]

You had one full year to get to know this woman and you still didn't love her. You only fell for her when she was no longer available to you in a romantic way. Also, you didn't tell her how you felt until you were sure that she wanted someone else who also wanted her too.

 

Are you sure this isn't a case of wanting what you can't have?

[tinyrobotman]

LOD, I understand what you're saying and I'd say yes and no. When I first met her I was not long out of a very long term relationship and she is pretty much 100% opposite of my ex. I think I wasn't ready for something different and more healthy at the time. Also my life and what I value in a partner has changed immensely in the 7 years I've known my friend, partly through being around her. What I thought I wanted back then is pretty different than what I want now. As I've said these feeling for this women developed over time.

 

For sure it took this guy coming along to make it clear to me how strong my feeling are. It's easy to just become complacent about someone always being there if nothing ever changes and I suspect I didn't want to tell her because I was pretty sure of what her answer would be so I choose to remain in the friendzone. I really do love this women and have for awhile not just because all of sudden she's leaving. The question is can I let that love for her go and go back to being friends. I'm not sure.

[maxi105]

hiya t/r/m. I'm glad you had a great trip with your friends and that you are looking into ways to not forget but to move forward each day and cope. I'm glad you are also able to still release feelings for her as it will help you heal still until real change takes you over and you are not considering the odd bits and pieces about her.

 

it all sounds as though you are making good progress so keep the friends close and all those that love you and you will get through this, you have shown and are showing great spirit.

 

come spring /summer and you will be flying high again I'm sure of it.

 

I wouldn't get to making conversation with her just yet about what you know or what you feel/felt as it might tip the balance to recovery a little and emotions may get the better of you when she tries to tell you her side (and its a side you already know, because you were hurt by it) and it wont help hearing anything like that I don't think not until you are fully back to the old you before you met her.

 

I think also getting close there is always a capacity for emotions to get very intimate and overwhelming for some (or in long term situations) it happens all the time in so many different situations for so many different people, just think how many people who go on holidays feel drawn to people or actors on a film set ect...so don't feel too bad, the thing is you are wiser now and if for now you feel that you don't want to get too close to women that's fine for now, but you may feel different after time has passed.

 

I think the one thing is that love is one thing and when you have that again (returned love that is) closeness and your views on it may change or be more capable as you will probably have something much more solid and sturdy.

 

but its nice to catch up with your progress so every time you look back (or are tempted to) think how far you've come since your original post about this and know that what you bring to the next opportunity will be wiser for how you coped with it all.

 

ok, very best of luck with it, before you know where you are the moths will fly by on this one. best wishes and keep enjoying those road trips, they sound a very healthy, fun, happy and cleansing way to help you move forward in a more natural and supportive way. ok, if I remember!!!! (and it will be if I remember hahah...) i'l look out for any news in the summer. but until then, all the best to you. see ya. maxi

[Eternal Sunshine]

I am someone with similar personality to her - somewhat shy and introspective. I have often been overlooked by guys because they prefered "doing cartwheels on the beach" types. And they have often tried to come back to me after they got worn out by all the drama those types bring.

 

I have never and would never give someone like that another chance. I can talk to them and be friends with them but my romantic feelings for them are dead. My dream guy would find the "manic pixie dream girl" types as annoying as I do. I would even go as far as to say that if I meet a divorced guy and find out that he was married to that type of person, I would not date him.

[tinyrobotman]

ES, This is something I've been thinking about lately. My ex was definitely a manic pixie type and as you said the drama and chaos eventually was too much. However I'm a bit on the shy and introspective side myself and often have some anxiety about rejection and approaching and pursing women. Usually I find myself nervous about misinterpreting signs of attraction and moving things along in that direction. With the maniac pixie girls they're usually either pursing you or at least telegraphing their attraction loud and clear. This was definitely an issue when I was dating my introspective friend 7 years ago. I could never figure out where she was at with attraction in any given moment. I think she probably felt rejected sometimes because I didn't pursue. Unfortunately my friend often falls for the player types because they're so good at reading those subtle cues and pushing past her anxiety.

 

So do you reject the men that have previously gone for the manic pixie girls because you resent them or because you believe they haven't changed their preference? To me that seems overly harsh and maybe shutting down some good potential matches. As we have relationships we learn what works for us and what doesn't. I would certainly never date another girl like my ex again and have learned from my experience with my friend that the more introspective girls would actually be a healthier match for me. The challenge now is how to learn how to push through my nervousness and progress a relationship with someone more like my friend.

 

Anyway, interesting food for thought. Thanks!

 

I am someone with similar personality to her - somewhat shy and introspective. I have often been overlooked by guys because they prefered "doing cartwheels on the beach" types. And they have often tried to come back to me after they got worn out by all the drama those types bring.

 

I have never and would never give someone like that another chance. I can talk to them and be friends with them but my romantic feelings for them are dead. My dream guy would find the "manic pixie dream girl" types as annoying as I do. I would even go as far as to say that if I meet a divorced guy and find out that he was married to that type of person, I would not date him.

[maxi105]

hey t/r/m.

 

 

just keep with it all, you've learned a lot on this journey of yours, however painful or frustrating at times.

 

 

never say never where the heart (or life is concerned) for that matter, who knows - it might be that you end up blissfully happy with someone that is actually a lot like your ex - they are just more compatible or they understand and share your values more.

 

 

of course, I think you may for now be more suited with a more introspective gal so you can get your courage and sense of old self back.

 

 

I think one thing that we all could do to remember (and I include myself in this too) is that as people we probably do have more of an inkling of who may be better suited for us (deep down) and often tend to overlook things that happen and keep on happening down the line that are not best suited for us or that well balanced with another we admire.

 

 

love is one of those things that you cant force or keep hold of if both parties are not wanting the same things. (or are not prepared to work to change it for the better)...

 

 

ok, so I got back to you sooner than I expected, but just trust yourself and allow someone when the time is right for you to meet and like all the things that make you you.

 

 

someone out there will like your introspection and shyness, a lot of women will find that refreshing and mature rather than having to battle with men that are too busy massaging their own ego's or parading their masculinity at the expense of their partners feelings or understanding how tedious to be or having to feel a constant need to come over as the alpha male is.

 

 

ok, that's me done on this one, you are gunna be just fine. and so Is the person you shack up with eventually who can give you the reciprocated love that you are looking for when it comes.

 

 

BEST WISHES tiny robot man. maxi.

[tinyrobotman]

Thanks maxi. Pretty sure I don't need anyone like my ex ever again. The farther I get away from that the more I realize how destructive she was.

 

Funny thing last weekend, I met basically the female version of myself. She's much younger and in a relationship, so obviously no dating potential there, but completely weird how similar in almost every way down to some of the quirkiest details and even the way she speaks. It gives me hope that maybe somewhere out there is my match, but it always feels like such a needle in a haystack, especially with OLD.

 

I still miss my best friend so, so much and have to fight every day to maintain no contact. Especially since I know she would love to have me back as a friend but I have to work on myself now more than ever and not get caught back in "the zone".

 

One "bonus" of being heart broken is that it kills my appetite and desire to drink so I've lost 10 lbs. Always look on the bright side right ...

[maxi105]

Hey u robot man ...keep going, we are all rootin for ya.

 

 

yes, its funny how different people spring up and can be like elements of us or folks we know.

 

 

you will find your needle in the haystack, and there are millions of needles and millions of bales of hay all looking for the other...

 

 

well ok, then fine, you are probably best to stay away from the destructive kinda gal that she was in terms of the relationship match; so at least that is a step forward, not everyone realizes the damage others in relationships (and of course I am not talking everyone here...but the ones that are in manipulating scenarios or bullying abusive etc, not everyone there knows, recognises it or has the strength or support or connections to deal with it, and it always seems worse in some ways when those people are good people who still have love and are wanting to change the people that are abusing them or treating them so poorly.

 

 

but give it time, it will heal you in its own time so get on with things the best you can and "congratulations" on the 10lb weight loss, (see there are changes already...and physically now as well as positive small mental improvements to how you are seeing things); remember to keep those that love you for you and for the good person you are close to hand, they are the things that will really help you get your old self back again....and who knows, in time when the pain and wondering of all this has passed, im sure you will be able to face this girl and evaluate things on a more level setting and look at things more as an outsider would, but with the ability to talk and know her if she would want that friendship in the future.

 

 

if you get her as an acquaintance in the future then go with that, but don't let that be your thing, it will happen naturally if it is going to happen.

 

 

keep with it, you are sounding sunnier each time we chat haha....so just keep going. best wishes, maxi:)

[tinyrobotman]

So being the guy that has to know the "why" of things I've been reading a bunch of relationship books over the last few weeks in a quest to understand what happened between me and my best friend. These including "The Man's Guide to Women" (why isn't that assigned reading in 9th grade?!) and "The Science of Happily Ever After", both excellent reads. After reading these books I've come to believe a lot of these friendzone type situations happen because of differences in the way men and women relate.

 

According to the books women relate to other women friends as well as their male partner in an emotionally intimate way. That is they share how things in their life are going emotionally, how things make them feel and want to be heard and listened to. When men get together with their male friends they don't relate emotionally but factually (ie. "Hey, I just bought a new truck"). This has certainly been the case in my experience, with some men barely being able to relate emotional experiences to their friends at all and who's only emotional confidant is their girlfriend or wife.

 

Where I think the friendzone fiasco often happens is when a women starts to see a single male friend who they are emotionally close with but don't desire a relationship with as another girlfriend. The relationship starts to take on an emotional intimacy which the women thinks of as a very close friend relationship and the man starts to see as a romantic relationship because men are used to only experiencing close emotional relationships with their girlfriends or wives. This mismatch is due to differences in how men and women relate as friends. The women often seems surprised or taken aback by the man's growing attachment and his romantic feelings and the man can't understand why the women doesn't see him romantically. It's neither one's fault but just a fact of nature that leads to heartbreak for the man involved and frustration for the women.

 

It's important to distinguish between unrequited crushes and friendships or people who have previously dated who've moved into the unfortunate friendzone. The unrequited crush can happen to both sexes in much the same way when one person doesn't really know the object of their crush and constructs an unrealistic romantic fantasy. However I believe the classic friendzone problem is fairly unique to close friendship style differences between men and women. After my heartbreaking experience with my best friend I've come to think that men and women can't actually be "best" friends. The man will almost always want something more if he's even remotely attracted to the women (and no I don't mean just sex) and the friendship becomes emotionally intimate. Men and women can certainly be friends but usually things need to remain on the same more surface level like a man would have with his male friends.

 

As for me I'm going to try to be just friends with my best friend I fell for because it would suck to not have her at all in my life considering what we've shared. However things can't ever be the same as they were before when we spent huge amounts of time together and shared so much. That's just an unfortunate fact of how I'm wired. The next person I'm that close with needs to be my actual partner or wife.

 

Honestly this has been probably the most difficult healing process of my life, even more than the breakup with my long term ex. At least I could hate my ex for the terrible things she did. My friend didn't do anything wrong other than try and be my best friend which makes it all the worse because I still love her. Hopefully somewhere out there in this ocean of sadness there's another shore because I still feel like I'm drowning.

 

Interested in thoughts on my friendzone conclusions.

 

- TRM

Edited March 16, 2018 by tinyrobotman

[tinyrobotman]

Well it's been awhile and things have in many ways gone from bad to worse but I have learned a lot about myself and her. Will kind of summarize the events here but in March we tried to be friends again and I wasn't ready. We did have some long talks however and it seems that at least on the surface for her is that she thinks of me "like a brother" and doesn't have any sexual attraction. After hanging out a few times I broke down and told her I still needed more space and time. It was just too hard to be around her.

 

Fast forward to May and we had been NC for about 8 weeks. I had found a good therapist and got on to antidepressants. Was starting to feel better and making progress in my life again (well at least i could get out of bed before noon so that was an improvement). I get a text from her out of the blue that she had just broken up with the guy. Ironically the issue was that he couldn't handle her having male friends and was very jealous and insecure.

 

We hung out a few nights over the next week. I made sure to set some boundaries for myself as she wanted to hang all the time and was upset over the breakup. However we went out to dinner one night and had an amazing time. She recounted all the things we had shared over the years and the evening felt very date like in a way. I even thought I picked up some signs of attraction from her which I made the mistake of mentioning off hand the next day.

 

Well two days later she's very upset over her breakup again so like a schmuck I went over to her house to comfort her. She went on and on about wanting to contact the guy again and talk with him and how he was probably out dating already and speculating that had he been cheating on her (little evidence of that). Just crazy hysterical stuff.

 

Well she decided to fly back and visit her high school friend in the city where he lives the coming weekend and reaches out to him. They meet up while she's there and start to reconcile after he pulls some manipulative crap. Also while she's there she texts me something about she should just move there since her high school friend lives there. Zero thought to how that might make me feel.

 

When she gets back from the trip she texts me and cancels all our upcoming plans and says he can't hang out as just friends anymore due to my comment about thinking she was attracted at dinner. I of course am upset and feel used. Obviously as part of her reconciliation with the guy she agreed to ditch me since I was one of the big issues they fought about. We exchanged a few long texts the next day which were very much like typical breakup messages and how all these feelings and emotions are bad and she needs some "space" and to be away from all the drama. We left it that we were taking some space and would check in every once in awhile. It's been 6 weeks of NC other than me reaching out with a "how are you" message in a moment of weakness to which there was no reply.

 

So ... This is all pretty complicated but I've learned about attachment style theory in my reading and from my therapist. I've figured out that I'm anxious and my friend is avoidant. Her and I even discussed it and she could see her avoidant tendencies. I've come to believe that in many ways we were in an anxious/avoidant relationship of sorts. I know it's tempting to say we were just friends and I'm just reading too much into it since we hadn't been sexual for so long. However we spent a huge amount of one on one emotionally intimate time together including holidays, birthdays, trips and had even talk about sharing a house together. We were both of each other main person in our lives and were there for each other all the time.

 

I think what we had was comfortable for her because it didn't trigger her avoidance since she could say we were "just friends". She got the benefits of a relationship without all the messy emotional and commitment issues. I being anxious and likely having self esteem issues was willing to settle and not push for a real relationship for fear of rejection. I also was getting many of my emotional and relationship needs met without having to take a chance. Our relationship/friendship was always on her terms however and that wasn't healthy for me. I was her placeholder until someone she felt more attraction too came along.

 

My therapist also suggested that she likely projects intimate/flirty relationship vibes when her and I interact as a way of keeping me hooked and in the friendzone. She may not even know she's doing it but it works to keep men around her without having to commit or offer a real relationship. I'm not the only man that this has happened to with her.

 

I know I deserve better, but unfortunately knowing and feeling are different and I still miss her tremendously and feel pain over it everyday. Our brief re-engagement six weeks ago didn't help. I really had hope that she would at least not move and we could be friends again and maybe even had the hope that she would see me in a different light after NC. However with some space again and taking her off the pedestal I am really starting to see some of her flaws. Many of which are the reasons I broke things off six years ago. Along with being avoidant she can be very self centered, lacks empathy and often doesn't consider others feelings. She really seemed to have no idea how her just up and removing herself from my life when someone came along would make me feel. She stays unattached so she can't understand how other do.

 

I'm trying to get on with my life and been on some dates, but still find myself comparing them to her. Not sure where to go from here. Should I go full NC? I'm sure she and the guy will breakup eventually but she also seems uncomfortable and is avoiding me now so not sure about even being friends. I'm pretty angry about how she restarted our friendship and the ditched me two weeks later, feel used. I'm not sure why that one comment asking if she was attracted set her off, but it seems to have. Maybe calling her out on the signals she sends out when she wants me around?

[tinyrobotman]

Some Lessons I've Learned:

 

If you think you might want to have a relationship with someone be clear about it and just go for it when you can. There is an expiration date on attraction, especially for women.

 

Learn to be more sexually aggressive and steer the relationship in a sexual direction if you want that. I tended to let the women lead on this. One thing she said that is true is that the difference between the friendzone and a boyfriend is sexual energy. Had I been more aggressive 6 years ago when we were hooking up then maybe there would have been a chance to see where things went as a real relationship.

 

Be hell yes or hell no to relationships. A maybe is a no.

 

It's not someone else's job to be attracted to you. You have to attract them.

 

Don't let someone keep you on the hook for less than you want.

 

If you really want to just be friends set clear boundaries and don't treat it like a sexless relationship, someone will get hurt. I have female friends but I treat them like my male friends and they don't treat me like a fake boyfriend so it's fine.

 

Avoid people with avoidant attachment issues. They won't be able to meet you fully and will do anything they can to minimize the relationship and intimacy. You will have an unhealthy dynamic, especially if you're anxious with low self esteem.

[stillafool]

Compatibility doesn't mean romantic or sexual chemistry. Haven't you heard the phrase "opposites attract"? We can be compatible with our best friends but it doesn't make us want to jump into the sack with them. That said, this woman doesn't feel sexual chemistry with you.

[stillafool]

I feel she does think you are attractive and probably adorable. There are probably times when she's with you she does feel sexual attraction but it is fleeting and she knows if she falls back into sex with you it will lead you on and ruin any friendship you two have created. It is a good thing that she is keeping her distance and not moving back to be your friend. That would just keep you stuck on her and miss out on some great women out there who will want you the way you want this woman to.

[Juha]

Some Lessons I've Learned:

 

If you think you might want to have a relationship with someone be clear about it and just go for it when you can. There is an expiration date on attraction, especially for women.

 

Learn to be more sexually aggressive and steer the relationship in a sexual direction if you want that. I tended to let the women lead on this. One thing she said that is true is that the difference between the friendzone and a boyfriend is sexual energy. Had I been more aggressive 6 years ago when we were hooking up then maybe there would have been a chance to see where things went as a real relationship.

 

Be hell yes or hell no to relationships. A maybe is a no.

 

It's not someone else's job to be attracted to you. You have to attract them.

 

Don't let someone keep you on the hook for less than you want.

 

If you really want to just be friends set clear boundaries and don't treat it like a sexless relationship, someone will get hurt. I have female friends but I treat them like my male friends and they don't treat me like a fake boyfriend so it's fine.

 

Avoid people with avoidant attachment issues. They won't be able to meet you fully and will do anything they can to minimize the relationship and intimacy. You will have an unhealthy dynamic, especially if you're anxious with low self esteem.

 

TRM, from my point of view it seems you two were good/best friends but good/best friends don't just up and dump you from your life if that's waht you were.

 

In my eyes you filled some emotional need for her as whoever she dated did not give her that. Seems she is not good at picking men to date and she used you for her emotional needs.

 

I think you should be happy you are rid of this women from your life who leeched off of you for her emotional needs.

 

Move on, don't bother with her ever again. Seems she is bad for you and in order to move your life forward and have a healthy dating relationship she needs to be out of your life completely.

 

I wish you luck