Virginity bothering me a little bit

[yumyumyum]

Hey everyone. Just wanted to post, say hi and explain my situation really.

 

In as few words as possible, I have avoided intimacy with people for over 5 years. I am now 25 (male) and over the last couple of years, I have become a lot worst...moved away from friends and just lost touch. I have made some good friends in some of that time, both male and female...and I have done some amazing things and there are aspects of myself that I really like and cherish. However, depression and anxiety got the better of me for a long while and the friendships I made never seemed deep enough to last...or perhaps I didnt/didnt know how, to maintain them.

 

To put it bluntly, I find myself now without any close friends, with no job and living with the parents. I do not like this situation and for a long time, it really got me down. BUT...and I want to make this clear...I do not have rock bottom self esteem!!! I really dont want people to just explain away the difficulties I am having at the moment with "oh...you have just got low self esteem, once that improves...you will be fine". Like I have said, there are many things I really value in myself...and I have been doing a lot of work on this recently.

 

However, I do not have group of close friends (one or two male friends)...I am quite shy and anti social by nature and I dont really socialise very often.

...BUT I HAVE BEEN CHANGING THIS RECENTLY. I have made efforts in the past, and recently to meet new people and my superficial people skills are actually very good. For example, I am very good at getting people to talk about themselves and listening carefully to them.

...AS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SUGGEST...I am pushing myself out of my comfort zone bit by bit, and boy have I done some things that I wouldnt even have considered a year ago.

 

TO CUT TO THE CHASE. I WANT TO MEET SOMEONE (FEMALE). I do not need this! Once again...I do not have really low self esteem...I am not desperate. I would just like to see who is out there and see if I like them enough....then try and build a relationship.

 

Thing is...I can read about dating as much as I like. I can think about it....I can mull it over in my brain. This will not change the fact that I am just not confident with the whole dating thing. I have NEVER asked a woman out. I am just clueless with flirting etc. AND I have been cooped up for a long time. I DO NOT/HAVE NEVER DISCUSSED DATING/SEX WITH ANYONE FACE TO FACE (too embaressing). Recently (whilst trying to meet new people) I have had women 'seemingly' flirt with me...BUT I JUST DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. I have never done it before! PLEASE BARE IN MIND THAT I HAVE NO FRIENDS TO ASK ADVICE FROM (and havent for a long time). I WOULDNT ANYWAY. MY ONLY OPTION IS MY MUM FOR ADVICE! Imagine you are dropped in China...with no friends or family....and you have to build up a new network of loving people FROM SCRATCH. THIS IS MY SITUATION.

 

On top of this. I am a virgin. Okay...so this is not a bad thing, and after years of thinking otherwise...I have realised this. At the end of the day, its other peoples problem not mine...I am just being honest.

....BUT...when I have taken this mental approach, and opened up with groups of new people....they, women in particular...seem to immediatly assume that I am a virgin (without me even discussing relationships etc.). They are even shocked when I reveal I have had 1 girlfriend! As in, they thought I had had none!

 

Again, this shouldnt be a problem. But its getting to me a bit. IS IT REALLY THAT OBVIOUS? People say I should just be open and honest about it...accept it. I dont go shouting it about...quite the opposite. BUT I HAVE HAD ATLEAST 3 girls in my last 4 attempts of socialising bring up (in a judmental sort of way) that they dont think I have a girlfriend, that they think I am a virgin....basically that they can tell I have no clue when it comes to dating, women etc.

 

I guess I cannot complain, as it is true to some extent. IT IS JUST SO DEMORALISING TO THINK THAT I HAVE THIS SIGN ON MY HEAD. THAT IT IS SO PAINFULLY OBVIOUS TO EVERY WOMAN THAT I AM A VIRGIN. I really dont like the idea that I am giving off these 'signals'. Let me be clear...I am okay privatley knowing that I am a virgin, maybe even telling someone I trust deeply.....but displaying my virginity unconciously and publicly is a different matter. How do I give off less of a virgin vibe?

 

Help please!

[PogoStick]

PUA is for guys like you. Not necessarily the canned pickup lines, but just learning how to be social and communicate with people. Start absorbing materials from lots of different sources. Watch some David Deangelo videos on youtube, and google Marni's Wing Girl Method. Again don't focus so much on learning lines, but to understand general psychology and communication.

 

Then you have to just practice. Go to the mall and some bars and strike up conversations with everyone, even guys. Get rejected 1000 times (literally). That's just 3 random conversations per day for the next year. The only way you'll learn is through experience, and it sounds like you have a lot of catching up to do.

 

More than anything you just have to learn how to be comfortable being social. That will change the vibe you project.

[Radu]

Add 3yrs and a couple of bad relationships and I was you.

Still am to some degree.

 

I hope this won't be interpreted as a sales pitch, as i don't advise you actually pay at all for this information.

This is basically what i did :

- read Dale Carnegie's book "how to make friends and influence ppl", it's very basic but good

- i then switched to Allen Pease's books on Body Language and meta-language

- i made a post very similar to yours on a PUA forum, where i set some goals

- i literally read that entire PUA board, and found info that directed me to other things

- like NLP

- i looked over David deAngelo's video's and his stuff is good ... but more interesting is his body language [studied it]

- for the sex part, i read Daniel Rose's book

- to better understand women, i joined a forum for lesbian women ... interesting otherwise but they don't get women either

- i joined LS to learn more about relationships, boundaries ... this place is like free therapy [unless you have a serious problem like having a PD]

- now i am learning NLP and have some other interesting books set for the future

 

The keys to using the above is to not just read, but "internalize" it.

By that i mean that reading is the first step.

After that, i let it simmer inside my head, i think about it ... it becomes a background thought of sorts.

With time, the information changes my outlook on things, it settles in.

I have an abnormal way of studying, that i make use of when learning these things.

I literally pace around my room, talking to an imaginary person, imagining myself in this conversation.

Trust me, the body language improves drastically [a mirror helps here].

 

For all of this you need to have the strength to know that there is something you want changed about you [maybe something you see as bad], but at the same time to not allow it to destroy your self-esteem ... to not allow your inner self to activate the survival instinct.

Most ppl, rationalize their problems away, they are not in the wrong [hence why the prisons are full of innocent ppl], they shift the blame for their actions to someone else.

To improve yourself, you must look at yourself as if you are in the wrong and fight this instinct, because this instinct that comes out of the subconscious will try to preserve your present ego.

This is why i literally worship that book written by Dale Carnegie ... i realised this after reading several times one of it's initial chapters.

 

I'll tell you one more thing; most ppl go through life like a leaf in the wind.

That is, external factors outside of their control decide their fate.

These external factors decide their fate.

These are the ppl we see every day, and some of them are the ones who are now in a 'better' place than you ... because they are not virgins and have had relationships.

Actually doing what you are trying to do means taking control of your life, and this is an amazing power because it does not apply simply to just romantic relationships, it applies to all relationships.

Unlike the masses, if you achieve this you will become self-aware and in control of yourself ... and someone who learned something as a child and developed an instinct for it [unrealized behaviour] cannot compete with someone who made a hobby out of understanding human behaviour as a conscious decision.

 

PS: It is a challenge, and some ppl will think that you have gone mad ... but it is worth it.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Radu

[yumyumyum]

PUA is for guys like you. Not necessarily the canned pickup lines, but just learning how to be social and communicate with people. Start absorbing materials from lots of different sources. Watch some David Deangelo videos on youtube, and google Marni's Wing Girl Method. Again don't focus so much on learning lines, but to understand general psychology and communication.

 

Then you have to just practice. Go to the mall and some bars and strike up conversations with everyone, even guys. Get rejected 1000 times (literally). That's just 3 random conversations per day for the next year. The only way you'll learn is through experience, and it sounds like you have a lot of catching up to do.

 

More than anything you just have to learn how to be comfortable being social. That will change the vibe you project.

 

Thank you for your words of advice Pogostick. I will definatley have a look at the sources you list. I have heard of the PUA community before, but people (both on/offline) always seem to take a really dim view of it. HOWEVER, the people that say this may be the ones that have been with a partner for a long time...the kind of people that already have friends and therefore have no need for PUA. Like I have said, I dont really have this luxury.

...maybe PUA is better for someone like me anyway. I am not the sort of person that needs anymore close friends really. I would be happy being one of those people that has a wife, knows a FEW aquaintainces...BUT THATS IT. Many have told me to make friends first with a group of people and take it from there. BUT I HAVE NO REAL BURNING DESIRE FOR FRIENDS...JUST A PARTNER.

 

Like I said in my last post, I dont want to sell myself short. I am confident in many other ways. I am actually pretty good at meeting new people (superficial social skills) as I have practised them sooo much. I can give public presentations with a lot more ease than most people....again, because I have practised them a lot. I AM NOT SOCIALLY INCOMPETANT.

 

...its just that I have never gone out to try and meet someone/or 'pull' before. As I have said, I just wouldnt know where to begin!!!

 

Thank you so much for the response. Would love to hear some other views.

[Radu]

Thank you for your words of advice Pogostick. I will definatley have a look at the sources you list. I have heard of the PUA community before, but people (both on/offline) always seem to take a really dim view of it. HOWEVER, the people that say this may be the ones that have been with a partner for a long time...the kind of people that already have friends and therefore have no need for PUA. Like I have said, I dont really have this luxury.

...maybe PUA is better for someone like me anyway. I am not the sort of person that needs anymore close friends really. I would be happy being one of those people that has a wife, knows a FEW aquaintainces...BUT THATS IT. Many have told me to make friends first with a group of people and take it from there. BUT I HAVE NO REAL BURNING DESIRE FOR FRIENDS...JUST A PARTNER.

PUA comes in two flavours.

Either the 'quick, i want to get laid' variety that is being broadcast by Mystery and others, or the one that deals with knowing yourself, improving yourself, reading up on psychology, sociology and other subjects.

The latter one is good for everyone, not just the ones who want a partner.

Again, if you end up paying for this stuff, it is a scam. Some of these "PUA" guys started selling out, seminaries for thousands of dollars ... while the same information is for free on forums or can be researched by you.

 

Like I said in my last post, I dont want to sell myself short. I am confident in many other ways. I am actually pretty good at meeting new people (superficial social skills) as I have practised them sooo much. I can give public presentations with a lot more ease than most people....again, because I have practised them a lot. I AM NOT SOCIALLY INCOMPETANT.

You actually sound in a better place than i was 2yrs ago when i started this.

Those will help you.

 

...its just that I have never gone out to try and meet someone/or 'pull' before. As I have said, I just wouldnt know where to begin!!!

 

Thank you so much for the response. Would love to hear some other views.

Can you handle looking a girl in the eyes ?

[yumyumyum]

PUA comes in two flavours.

Either the 'quick, i want to get laid' variety that is being broadcast by Mystery and others, or the one that deals with knowing yourself, improving yourself, reading up on psychology, sociology and other subjects.

The latter one is good for everyone, not just the ones who want a partner.

Again, if you end up paying for this stuff, it is a scam. Some of these "PUA" guys started selling out, seminaries for thousands of dollars ... while the same information is for free on forums or can be researched by you.

 

 

You actually sound in a better place than i was 2yrs ago when i started this.

Those will help you.

 

 

Can you handle looking a girl in the eyes ?

 

Cool. I think I get what you are saying. I have always avoided paying for that sort of PUA stuff. I guess I am a little worried that I will become fixated on learning about it (reading/researching)...rather than actually getting out there an practicing. But I guess this is what you mean when you say that I should actually get out there.

 

The 'looking into a girls eyes' question is a good one. The answer is YES. BUT...this isn't to say that it is something that I find natural/comes naturally to me. I know that in conversation it is good to maintain 70/30 eye contact...I know people like eye contact and it makes them comfortable...I know people might jump to the conclusion that I am 'shifty', untrustworthy, hiding something and shy, if I do not make good eye contact.

 

This is very different to making natural eye contact. What I am saying is that if I put 'my game face' on...and put a lot of effort in...monitor myself and how I am behaving. I can make very good eye contact. NOT BECAUSE I LIKE IT OR BECAUSE IT FEELS COMFORTABLE TO ME...BUT BECAUSE I KNOW IT WILL GET BETTER RESULTS.

...recently I was chatting to this woman I had met. She was really responding to my eye contact (which I was trying very hard to maintain). From the body language and the way she was looking at me, I was 70% sure she was interested.

...AFTER A WHILE there was a pause in the conversation! I wanted to do something...like move things forward. Ask her out or something. But like I say, I was clueless what to do. So I just kept on chatting in a friendly way.

....I think in a way this sums up to where I am up to. I can make a very good impression. I think If I try hard, I can come accross as attractive to new people. BUT I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY ACTUALLY SHOW THEIR INTEREST. Women wait for the guys to lead, and at the moment. I do not know how to lead.

 

Once again cheers for the advice and chat. Can I ask, what happened 2 years ago? How did you move forward to where you are today?

Edited January 31, 2013 by yumyumyum